Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Why does your grill look like it's trying to impress ad700s, I've been wondering this since your earlier pics but I didn't see any explanation

Also, did you ever try damping on the other side of the driver to compare? I was under the impression that damping had to be in pretty close to direct contact with the driver housing to have a significant impact, and yours looks like it's decently far away, so I guess I was wrong

either that or I have the wrong idea about where it's been placed

 

Just did the damping mod on my 600s and I really can't hear much of a difference. To be fair I haven't listened to the HD600s much lately so dumb move on my part... The bass seems different though: Punchier and (possibly tighter). Also maybe tad less harshness in the low treble which is nice but that kind of made these more laid back sounding as well.

 

after I pick up the ICs for my new Modi Multibit tn I'm gonna add the damping and A/B some too.

Kinda pissed i left my soldering station at home when I went to college, buying a bunch of cables I have a box of part to make is killin me

EDIT: jesus christ man, dyanamat sucks so much more than I was expecting, super awful to work with.

Probably would have been a lot easier if I had a pair of scissors or really anything other than a disposable edge razorblade, but at least I'm done. I doubled up on the Dynamat in most places that weren't the driver ring, for what that's worth. Took off the spidercage too while I was at it. Main thing I've noticed so far is some more low-level resolution.

EDIT2: Bass standing out to me a lot more, just sounds faster than before. Can't really tell if it's more prominent than before of not, but probably not. Really the only notable flaw at this point is that the vocals sound kinda veiled still, but I'm assuming that changes when my jotun comes in tomorrow. If not, I'll be going ahead with a gimped quarter mod (dime mod for starters imo)

EDIT3: the jotun fixed everything and then some, quarter mod tabled indefinitely.

 

No attempt to impresss! I liked the sound of no grille cover better than with it on! So I theorized a more open grille would offer me that sound with the added protection of having a grille. I prefer it this way!

Foam on the grille is simply for diffraction and reflections. It is a subtle improvement over not having it.

As I pointed out the front frame damping is in addition to the backframe damping which is the same as has been previously discussed on this forum. I have two of the paper ports around the magnet closed with damplifier pro. I like this configuration best although arguments can be made for all 4 closed!
Happy Listening

 

Oh, cool! So you made an entirely new grille?

I'm interested in trying the other stuff, I've just been hesitant to even try because I know there's really no way I would be able to add/remove it quickly enough to determine which I liked better in an A/B. hopefully I get better at listening soon.

 

Bumping to see if anyone has insight re: this glasswool question.

With the new KISS mod thread, I think there's an opportunity to simply use a smaller circle of either glass wool or Arctic Cotton (as shared by @gurubhai and @Koth Ganesh; image) underneath the dampener donut on the magnet instead of a crescent fold of the foam. Solderdude measured a midbass reduction with both materials and appeared to have a preference for glasswool.

 

As soon as I go back home for break I'm gonna be building a measurement rig to try out all sorts of weird damping shit, this is so frustrating to do not having one lmao

I've always been slightly afraid of glass wool because of the weird particulate shit some broscience article i read told me it spits out, and like getting that stuck in your lung wouldn't be great but is would truly suck getting it all up in your drivers

 

I spent the last few weeks comparing my (initially stock, then modded) 650 to my Elear, and wrote down my thoughts during the process. Thanks everyone for your valuable insights here.

Elear vs Stock 650
- The Elear’s deeper sub-bass extension is immediately noticeable, and its mid-to-subbass transition is much cleaner and easier to delineate. The 650 tends to mush the two together in comparison.

- However, that bass emphasis and depth also highlights the Elear’s well documented upper midrange thinness, which becomes especially apparent when you compare it with the 650, even in its stock form. That odd contrast between the former’s visceral low-end impact and a muted, quiet upper midrange is something I noticed in my first audition and continue to have mixed feelings about months into ownership.

- Faster subjective speed and transient response vs. stock 650, which sounds slightly slower and softer in comparison. Contributes to a more distinct sense of instrument separation, but the stage itself isn’t significantly wider.

Stock 650 vs 650M (rear foam removed, dynamat, spider intact)
- I removed the rear foam a week after A/Bing the stock 650 and Elear. Like others, I found the increase in treble fatiguing at first, but after a day or two of consistent listening, I adjusted quickly. Compared to the stock 650, the 650M’s dynamics are much improved and become similar to the Elear’s – there’s much more impact in every note.

- That being said, I agree with others who noted that the mods alter the warm, lush character of the stock 650. The technical improvements are obvious, but they come at a slight cost to the mellow, relaxed, just-put-it-on-and-listen sound that makes the stock 650 so widely appealing.

- Haven’t removed the spider cage yet, mainly because I haven’t had a chance to sit down and fine-tune the Dynamat placement to my liking -- I’ll get that done sometime within the next week. Even so, the improvements are quite noticeable: the stage sounds less congested, there’s a clearer sense of separation and air, mids sound less veiled, and bass is tighter.

650M vs Elear
- I noticed a slight improvement in subbass extension compared to stock, but still don’t feel that my 650M beats the Elear in that department – the latter still extends deeper.

- The 650M doesn’t suffer from the same treble peakiness issue @10k that makes the Elear sound fatiguing during extended listening sessions.

- After mods, the difference in midrange cohesiveness between the 650M and Elear becomes even more apparent. Vocals and violins come through with full-bodied presence on the 650M, but sound as if they’re coming from the background on the latter.

Final thoughts and comments re: value proposition.
I still really enjoy my Elear – its dynamics, bass emphasis and sound signature fit my personal tastes. However, the modded 650 addresses most of the technical complaints I had about the stock 650 sound, and given its more cohesive midrange, improved dynamics, and less peaky treble, it speaks volumes about how good the 650M is from a price-to-performance standpoint. SBAF isn't kidding about how good these are.

 

A (very) unscientific measurement of my Jotun + HD650M pair using iPhone & dB meter app. Looks quite matched with 650 consensus. Pink is the average; forget the green line.

 

It doesnt require a lot to hear differences these additional mods make. It helps to have music you know well and love listening to. Knowledge of how instruments actually sound helps as well. Better equipment doesn't hurt either but I dont believe not having the best stuff hinders the process. Throwing out the strict objectivist A/B approach is the first step. If something seems like it might make a difference try it.
First thing is do you feel more invoved with the music. My big thing is PRAT. Pace, Rythmn and Timing! The majority of worthwhile mods will at least subtley improve these things. I dont worry about detail and soundstage immediately. Next I focus on song lyrics and intelligibility of those lyrics. Again they should improve. Tonal balance next. Then dynamics!
If you hear a difference... accept that it is there and dont second guess it. Establish what it is and move on.

Anyway best of luck and most of all...
Happy...Merry....Listening

 

Ugh, PRaT...

 

This is a heartwarming thread: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/1122097-desperately-need-linear-headphone-price-no-object-everything-i-tried-garbage.html

Mastering engineer with a budget of €5000 tries to find a pair of tonally neutral headphones, finds out that almost everything on the market is crap overpriced garbage. Conclusion?

Some other humdingers:

Tell it like it is brother!

Aren't we all?

Though I just sent him a message suggesting the PMx2

 

Amongst all the replies, I love the guy coming out and recommending the M50 as the best <€5000 linear headphone. He's the real MVP there

 

That is an interesting thread, @Garns .

When circumstances caused me to go from speakers to headphones, about a year ago, I started with the HD650. I was really happy with the sound. I had read a bit about the HD600 being more neutral (according to some) and thought I might try it out. I was giving my opinions on masterings on the Steve Hoffman forum and took that seriously. I am not so sure that the HD600 is more neutral. To me they are just different. Anyway, I had read a post (don't remember the source) from a guy that got a tour of Abbey Road Studios. He mentioned that he saw HD600s laying around everywhere. That was the moment where I went from "I think I need to try HD600." to ordering them.

Edit: Yeah, I know my post is tangential.

 

I'm sure this isn't an uncommon sentiment, but I feel so stupid for not having just bought the HD6X0 like ten years ago or whenever I got into this shit.

Out of the big three, they were clearly the most well-received by everyone, but I was too much of a f'ing hipster and had to try all of the weird alternatives first because the HD6X0 were immediately recommended even on non audio sites so I somehow convinced myself they were just mainstream hype

it took me like a decade to realize that a lot of times things are just mainstream because they're good lmao

on topic though, I tried the KISS mod for a short period of time, and I'm not quite sure what I think of it. I really dig how involving/open it is with no damping, possibly enough to not care about the bump in the midbass at all (or maybe I just like the midbass bump, who knows). The OCD re: channel matching based on how deep the foamies are pushed in is killing me, too. Need to build that measurement rig ASAP

gonna leave it in for a while longer to where my opinion winds up

 

I just have them flush, held down with tar from the inside of my Dynadonut. Seems to me it would be REALLY difficult to get both sides pushed in the exact same depth. I'm happy with the improvement over foam sitting atop the donut.

 

That't what I was planning to do, but I decided to give the original idea a shot first.

 

There were actually two of them, lmao

my personal favorite was the double-amped sensibility

 

My humble take on the HD650. It was long overdue, but I finally managed to come around and apply the donut--which was a PITA to cut and took several tries--on the magnet. Note I also did the coin mod, as I no longer own the Jotunheim.

Before mass loading the magnet, I felt the dampening mod made the HD650's mids somewhat recessed. I thought of it as a tradeoff for a slight gain in resolution and tauter bass. With the donut in its place, the mids sounds fuller, no longer V-sounding. Now I wholeheartedly agree that dampening the magnet is a must. This is a world-class headphone.

FYI I'm using the Damplifier Pro which seems to be the less popular dampening material around here. I won't claim it's sonically better than Dynamat Xtreme because I haven't compared the two side-by-side. I just used DP because it's more affordable, comes in smaller sizes ideal for headphone modding, and IMO aesthetically better looking than the glossy DX.

 

@songmic

Nice job! Also very similar to what I did with my HD650, and I agree this makes a great headphone. If you feel that the bass is a tad too much, or too uncontrolled, what you can do is add back a little bit of rear dampening. I've done this myself (and also Marv with his KISS mod) and I think it's now maybe 50% of what it originally was. Just if you feel the bass is a tad uncontrolled.

Also - a tip for others who want to replicate the donut shape: First trace the outlines with a compass drawing tool and a pencil (or just round objects if you don't have a compass tool). The damplifier pro is very easy to cut with a sharp pair of scissors. However - the middle hole is best attacked with a very sharp pointy knife. Place the damplifier pro on a piece of wood or A4 block and just stab your way around in small increments. With some care you can make a nice hole in a minute or so.