Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. stratocaster

    stratocaster Friend

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    I just measured an HD600 driver in its silver screen capsule, took it out and put it into a black screen capsule of an old HD580 and measured it again. With the exact same pads. Are you expecting differences? Have a look...

    screentest1.jpg

    screentest2.jpg

    As I see it, if there are any 'veiled' and 'not-veiled' HD600s or HD650s, it may very well not be a result of the sreen. What else, then? I would put my money on the pads as the culprits.
     
  2. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    No, I think it's the screen.

    The difference is... IMO, that the HD600 is kind of bright-ish already, so most people would not hear it as "veiled" per se, but the HD650 with its tonal balance being warmer may sound more "veiled".

    The silver screen material is more rigid, which leads me to believe that it isn't too resonant at lower frequencies, and that may be why the HD650 is less veiled.

    But I could just be talking non-sense.
     
  3. stratocaster

    stratocaster Friend

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    so here we go, the ultimate but quick and dirty screen test: I used both HD600 and HD650 drivers with the same pads. All drivers had the rear foam disk removed from the back of the driver and no foam disk in front of the driver.
    I am posting the single pics and an animated version too, so that the changes are visible in a different way.

    Pic 1: As you see from the caption I put the HD650 and 600 drivers into the black screen capsule and...
    600and650_in_black_screen.jpg

    Pic 2: Drivers behind HD600 silver screen ...
    600and650_in_600silver_screen.jpg

    Pic3: behind HD650 silver screen ...
    600and650_in_650silver_screen.jpg

    Animated ... (3sec between pics)
    animated.gif

    Finally, HD650 driver behind black screen and HD650 silver screen:
    650in_hd650silver_and_black.jpg

    As for me, I must arrive at the following conclusions:

    1) The screen does make a (or I would almost have to say) the difference
    2) The differences between the HD650 and 600 drivers do seem to be rather minor frequency-response-wise
     
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  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Looks like plenty of variables to consider...screens, drivers, and pads. Would need to try a mix of all to see where differences may lie.
     
  5. stratocaster

    stratocaster Friend

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    That's why I tried to eliminate as many variables as I could think of quickly: the pads, (different) foam disks at the back and in front of the driver, different drivers of the same headphone ...
     
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Interesting. Sennheiser just happened to change the screen material for the entire line around the same time they retuned the HD 650 driver and sells the drivers as an entire assembly. Hence black driver versus silver driver terminology. Newer HD 650s measure much closer to new HD 600s both of which come with the newer pads than the original black driver HD 650 versus HD 600 with new pads.

    My own ears' A/B/C comparison thought the new silver driver, black box HD 650 sounded almost identical to the HD 600 in the bass and lower mids; the black driver 650 was way too warm and veiled. The 600 was slightly treble emphasized making the new HD 650 best for shimmering cymbals and sibilant recordings. I bought the HD 650 myself for being darker, having a better cable, harder clamp, hand-matched drivers, and no awful granite counter top paint job.

    Here are Sonarworks averaged measurements of brand new HD 650s versus brand new HD 600s. Red is 650, blue 600. All of course came in black boxes with the new stiffer pads and silver screens:
    [​IMG]

    For comparison, Solderdude's measurements from DIYAudioHeaven of his original black driver HD 650

    New pads on black driver vs old pads. Old red, new green:
    [​IMG]

    The stiffer new pads compressed like the older pads versus the older pads. Old red, new blue.
    [​IMG]

    Black driver HD 650 original pads versus a new HD 600 with current pads:
    [​IMG]

    Black driver HD 650 new pads vs new HD 600
    [​IMG]


    Conclusion: The stiffer pads, silver screens, and driver upgrades definitely make a difference for the silent HD 650 revisions. Now what are just variances due to Sennheiser's still best in the business manufacturing and quality control tolerances? God knows.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  7. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    I'm planning on doing the mods in the OP to my 650s I'm kinda confused what to do though, do I remove the foam discs in the back or not?
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. Remove foam discs in the back.
    2. Cut quarter sized holes int front foam.
     
  9. Judeus

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    "I did not like the HD650 at all without any of the foam. The treble was too nasty without it. It would appear that the metal shealth does need the foam on top of it. Might be interesting to find a similar low density foam and use it to cover up the HD800 metal sheath."


    Oh okay, it's just that part that confused me, so you meant like removing all the foam in front of the driver was too much so you settled on the quarter size hole?
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yes, I meant removing all of the foam. Removing all of the foam on the HD650 would be huge mistake, at least it was for me. Best was only to remove a quarter size portion just in front of the driver.
     
  11. Judeus

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    cool, cool, any updates to the last part with the dynamat? seems a bit more tricky and kinda fudges up the magnet
     
  12. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    hmmm, odd, I just pulled out the discs behind the drivers on my pair and there were only two pairs per side not three?

    maybe sennheiser has been doing their own mods...
     
  13. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    well I've been listening to these for about an hour (remove foam disks, cut quarter size hole) out of a Yggdrasil and a rggy

    THE AIR, THE SPACE IT SOUNDS SO SPACIOUS THESE ARNT HD650s

    mid Bass seems a little reduced? I wish I had another non modded to compared.

    Interested in doing the dynamat mod and seeing how it effects the bass
     
  14. riker1384

    riker1384 Acquaintance

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    In Solderdude's long PDF report the glasswool damping behind the driver seemed to be effective in eliminating the midbass hump while not lowering the subbass. What is the exact nature of this mod? (I wish there were pics.) Is this ordinary home insulation fiberglass or something else? And do you fill the entire cavity between the driver/screen and the grille with fiberglass, or is it less than that?

    Also, regarding the front foam, I don't want to cut holes and expose the drivers. Has anyone else tried the AKG K240 foam that Solderdude mentions? Is it going to eventually fail and turn into this mess?:
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/724803/akg-k240-monitor-earcup-foam-replacement-part
     
  15. Huhnkopf

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    DT880 600 vs. "new" HD 650. What do you say? No contest? The DT880 could be dampened for its highs but does it hold a candle in technicalities?
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    No. The DT 880 doesn't really hold up to even the HD 580; it's more of a mid-eighties, HD 540 competitor. You know back from the era when Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, and the independent AKG were all delusionally designing diffuse field voiced headphones? The HD 580/600/650 series is a big step beyond that in terms of tonality and resolution. When buying DT 880s you also have to consider that the less offensive DT 880, 600 ohms has worse quality control and driver matching than the professional 250 ohm version. This is Beyer with their Forrest Gump box of chocolate headphones so "unmatched drivers" can mean something awful. Also DT 880s tend to get hair on the driver more often than other open headphones. The pads might as well be a statically charged floor mop.

    Beyerdynamic doesn't have anything better as they've spent the past thirty years biting down on cyanide capsules and shooting themselves in the face.
     
  17. Judeus

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    AHAHAHA

    so true though,

    You know it's sad when the the KXXX and the dt880pro at $200 are your "flagship" products in terms of SQ

    not to leave senn out of the hate though, they did hit it out of the park with the hd6XX/hd800 but they have there share of blunders too including everything after 2008
     
  18. Huhnkopf

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    This should be repped. :D

    I know the DT 880 quite well and had it for a few months. I liked (despite different characters) the HE-5LE much better and thought it not only had better dynamics and punch but also not the same "cheating"/fake detail character of pronounced highs. Kinda thought the Beyer wouldn't be able to match the HD 650. I heard the latter at this years high end fair at various booths and it really made an impression. Though I own the HD 800 I want to get a pair.
     
  19. Klasse

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    I have a DT880 Pro (250 Ohm) and had the HD600 too and there was no contest for me.
    While HD600 had a little bit better vocal rendering the rest went for the DT880 with more air, better attack and much more clear bass response.

    I also like the T1 over DT880, it has some really strong points.

    All in all, I can always go back from my T1/HD800 to the DT880 and don't feel there's so much missing.
    HD600 was a tad laid back in comparison, with boosted mid-bass and little air.

    Still prefer the HD600 over the Fidelio X1, though.

    I guess what you do is kind of fun:

    But it's not more than subjective stuff / your personal opinion.
    I can argue that despite you seem to don't like Beyerdynamic, they've been doing pretty consistent headphones through the years, and I've also seen graphs exposing bad driver matching from most other brands.
    http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880250ohm.pdf
    http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD600.pdf

    Going too far with generalizations is not that constructive in my experience.
     
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    The DT 880 always had better subbass but worse mids and an offensive diffuse field can treble every time I tried it. The detail appears false due to the treble spike but the HD 600 resolved better when I eqed away the DT 880 treble.

    Beyerdynamic has infamous quality control and customer service issues. They haven't designed a worthwhile new headphone in 30 years. They've actually fucked up the DT 770 over the last few years with thousands of pairs having defective drivers and they won't take them back. This is the company that admitted they didn't fix their plastic injection molder for over a decade. They make one good headphone you can just recommend someone buy without major issues: the DT 880 and that's only if they mostly listen to music with less forwardly recorded percussion like classical and some jazz.

    You're comparing a headphone which has handmatched drivers (the DT 880 250 ohm professional version) to one that doesn't too. The driver matching on the HD 600 has improved recently though probably as Sennheiser's manufacturing consistency went up.

    Anyway, the DT 880 250 might not have matched drivers anymore either as Solderdude pointed out http://diyah.boards.net/thread/648/beyer-dt-880-600-ohm
    The offensive treble is gone but so has the driver matching and it has a DT 770 like dip at 4-5k. Maybe someone should measure a new pair...
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015

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