Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    Removing the spider makes your HD 650 sound really good, it's the best sounding mod in my opinion, With HD650 it feels like you opened up the driver and letting it perform it's best. the driver has room to breathe. More clarity imo.

    You can do the dynamat first, no problem with that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  2. CakePirate

    CakePirate New

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    I felt that although the spider + rear foam removal improved clarity, it was the cause of the (treble?) glare that fatigued my ears. I put drawer liner (without a coin hole) in between the front foam and driver and it has removed some of the glare (at the expense of some clarity?).
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  3. mawk

    mawk Acquaintance

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    @Jun You've got no dynamat on the magnet, any particular reason why? Marv appears to have almost completely covered his.
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    If you are worried about exposed drivers, find dust filters of varying "density" and apply to grills or in front of driver as needed. Might alter sound but less so than full blown foam, I'd guess. Only use it where needed.
     
  5. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    I tried the way Marv and others put dynamat 2 times and always returned it back to no dynamat on drivers. Dynamat made the hd 650 more dampened like putting the spider back on, it felt less musical. Maybe I was hearing more reverb and I liked it. Try it both ways.
     
  6. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Is your stock foam coin-modded that you put the drawer liner under?
     
  7. mawk

    mawk Acquaintance

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    [​IMG]

    Anyone tried using pad spacers? This is using rolled tissues stuffed into the rear of the pads, same thing that I've been using in my T50RPs to keep the drivers off my ears.

    I was skeptical about doing this because I didn't want to obstruct the pad venting but so far I think I've only lost minimal midbass and gained a bit of soundstage - overall an improvement! I imagine that doing this would be akin to getting new pads, for those of you with worn pads who want to hear the difference.

    (And you can see what I mean when I say I live in a house covered in cat hair, right?)
     
  8. CakePirate

    CakePirate New

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    Yes. For some reason it gives me a slight headache listening to it. I'm totally unsure whether its the treble (the reason I blamed the treble in my earlier posts is because these modded HD 650s have the loudest >5kHz FR I've experienced before) or maybe even the dynamat mass-loading that's causing this problem for me (or maybe it's just my ears/brain being too sensitive to something?). Maybe I'm allergic to such clarity :p. I've never had this problem before with my other headphones or earphones. Perhaps I need to get used to listening to these headphones (like how new spectacles gives a headache at first?)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  9. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Thanks for the clarification. I doubt that the phenomenon is caused by the mass loading as that simply reduces driver housing movement/vibration and thereby bass distortion.

    I've also noticed more irritability and fatigue with the HD650 after modding, so I'm going to try a coin-modded set of AKG K240 foam, hopefully this week. I think the phenomenon is caused mostly by the rear foam removal and, to a much lesser extent, the front foam coin mod. Maybe comb-filtering. The rear foam pad is significantly thicker than the front foam, and thus may absorb (at least a meaningful portion of) the rear wave of the driver. Removing the rear foam likely allows all sorts of reflections to enter into the equation, off of the spider cage and grill back through the vent and mesh. Maybe this is why people have noticed a positive benefit when removing the spider cage.

    My theory is that people often like the way the sound changes further, after the main three mods, when either/both drawer liner or/and K240 foam are used on the front side of the cups because more of those rear wave reflections including any through the mesh, and reflections of the front wave between the listener's ear and the baffle/housing, are being absorbed. The K240 foam pad is thicker than the HD650 foam pad.

    I also assume this is why @Hands placed some open cell foam U shapes on the rear side of his cups over the plastic perimeter where his Dynamat is. I bet this helps absorb some rear wave reflections before they hit the plastic perimeter around the mesh. I don't see any theoretical disadvantage to using foam on the rear of the cups as long as it's limited to covering the outer plastic section and doesn't cover the mesh/vent. This would cover those eight small holes in the plastic housing, so whether I'm correct depends on whether those holes are acoustically significant. I doubt they are.

    I've also wondered if placing a quarter- or half-dollar-sized circle of foam directly on the inside of the grill, centered over the magnet, would give the benefits of stock rear foam removal, but still meaningfully absorb the rear wave and minimize the issue we've been discussing. I recall seeing at least a couple pictures in this thread of a foam ring used around the lollipop/magnet that covered the mesh, so there may be some advantages there too.

    The reason I theorize the above is because, aside from the obvious benefits in subbass weight and overall bass tautness, the other thing the I've noticed the HD650 mods provide is a better sense of space and realism. Not sure how else to describe it. Things sound clearer yes, but sounds/instruments are better placed in relation to other sounds/instruments and better situated themselves within the recording venue than they were stock. (All my listening, stock and modded, has been with an Yggdrasil and Valhalla 2.) I assume this is because the rear wave has more room to breathe than it did before. I noticed the same space/realism phenomenon when comparing loudspeakers years ago, and it's why I settled on Magnepan (a dipole planar speaker design). The dipole design makes instruments sound more real to me, and that's why the trade offs I made going with a planar speaker over a traditional dynamic driver design were worth it to me.

    Or I could be completely wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
  10. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Thanks for the idea. I'd actually used this technique all the way around on some DT1350s I used to own to tune the bass when I swapped out the stock pads for Nubuck pads searching for more comfort.

    I don't have too much trouble with my ears touching the insides, but I have to rotate the cups all the way back to have them evenly pressing on the sides of my head, which means the drivers are projecting slightly from behind. I put 7 folds of 2-ply tissue under the rear half of the pads like yours and now I can wear them with the cups parallel. This helps to move the headstage forward a bit, and I think I've noticed a bit less mid-bass bloat (might be confirmation bias).

    Might try some more in a while to see if I can get the cups rotated even more to the front to move the headstage even further forward without any causing detrimental changes.
     
  11. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    AKG K240 foam pads, coin-modded

    [​IMG]

    Echoing earlier posts that these pads are harder to work with. This is because the foam is adhered to a black backing material. I used the same process I described preciously: an Xacto, cutting pad, and nickel coin. After a few passes with the Xacto (pressing lightly), it's easier to cut the black backing by keeping at least one finger on the coin and another on the foam behind where you'll be cutting. This helps prevent the knife from pulling the black backing with it and allows you to actually cut it. Once I cut the circle out, I cleaned up with scissors any black fuzzies on the edge of the circle.

    To get these pads to sit somewhat flush, you'll also need to use scissors to trim the middle sides of each circle to more closely match the width of the stock foam pad. The AKG circles are maybe 1/4" wider than the Sennheiser ovals. I lined up the coin holes of both stock and AKG pads and cut the extra off using the stock foam as a guide. It was maybe 1/8" to 3/16" removed in some places. Then trim as necessary to avoid the foam bulging once laid flat in the cup.

    Because of the black backing on these pads and the slightly thicker foam, when re-inserting the earpads they pull a little away from the center of the internal foam pad. This was a nickel-sized hole originally, but ended up closer to quarter-sized. Could probably do a penny and be ok.

    I do not recommend the AKG K240 foam without the coin mod. It muffles everything and makes you sad inside. With the coin mod, I echo earlier impressions that it makes the sound more lush. I assume this is because the thicker foam is absorbing more high frequencies. I'm on the fence as to whether this is a good thing or not overall frequency-response-wise, but I do think it's slightly less fatiguing.

     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  12. BleaK

    BleaK Friend

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    So while I was modding I found at that my silver screen got different amount of black things on them. I somewhat feel that the one with most black thing is not giving as good sound as the one with less. Is this a huge problem or do other have the same?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. chopstix

    chopstix Canali at HF (keeping him close)

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    hi everyone, new member here.

    i so suck at tweaks... is there anyone in vancouver bc canda who does quality tweaks to these cans?
    i have a pair and was considering getting the massdropthx00 or grado RS1i or ps500e to 'compliment' them.
    but maybe just a tweak is fine, too...my amps are fine i think, as i know they're very scaleable.

    thank you
     
  14. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    What are these 'black things' you speak of? The only difference I see is the amount of adhesive used on the silver mesh against the baffle assembly. I don't think it will make a difference, but you can build yourself a measurement rig just to be sure :p
     
  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    How closely the silver mesh is adhered to the plastic "spider" of the baffle shouldn't matter unless there are air gaps around the edges somewhere, and even that would make an incredibly minimal difference.
     
  16. MLegend

    MLegend Friend

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    Hey @zonto, how did you get that sampler pack of the damplifier pro? The cheapest pack you can buy on their site is $50 which is just too expensive for me.
     
  17. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    It is at the bottom of this page:
    http://store.secondskinaudio.com/vibration-dampers-cld/?sort=featured&page=2

    $0.00 Sample Pack - United States Flat Rate Box

    "Product Description
    Fixed shipping price is only valid in the USA. Please use the Samples International Flat Rate product option to ship to an International address. If you are ordering other products and want to add a Sample Pack to the order just put "SAMPLE PACK" in notes and we will throw one in with your order.

    Now you can get your hands on Second Skin products before you buy them! a Second Skin sample pack includes samples of the following:

    Damplifier

    Damplifier Pro

    Overkill Pro

    Luxury Liner Pro

    Luxury Liner

    Heat Wave Pro

    Thermal Block"

    [​IMG]
     
  18. MLegend

    MLegend Friend

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    Thank you Dino. Zonto sent me a pm telling me where it was too. Can't believe I didn't see it before.
     
  19. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    I've been listening for a while with the foam removed from the spider cage and the coin hole mod into the original foam, and there was definitely a tasteful increase in treble presence and an increase in clarity. I just did the spider cage removal, and while the overall clarity is better I feel like there's also an increased upper midrange/treble presence...maybe just hearing things.

    I have some dynamat but haven't applied it yet. A buddy of mine has a pair of fried HD600 drivers that I'm gonna practice on first. Ordered some K240 foam also.
     
  20. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    Ok, so I applied the dynamat last night. It's not easy to work with, but not difficult by any stretch. A couple cardboard templates helped, although could have been neater. A friend of mine gave me some busted HD600 drivers to practice on. I applied it to everything but the place where the spider cage used to be. The result was a slight improvement in bass impact and extension, decent reduction in background and increased resolution in the lower registers, etc etc... but I was getting some awful resonance somewhere in the upper midrange/lower treble. I couldn't just hear it, I could feel it. It was nasty and super fatiguing, and I regretted cutting the spider cage away.

    This morning, applied a donut of dynamat to the magnet (that's the magnet right?) and that seems to have gone away. A little less of that midrange clarity, but also eliminated the horrible resonance.

    TL;DR don't cut the spider cage away unless you're willing to put something else in its place cause damn that was gross

    Still waiting on K240 foam.
     

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