Sennheiser HD650

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Jeangenie, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. rainer.skill

    rainer.skill New

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    Did you hear the Centrance Hifi-M8 yourself so that you can surely say it is that bad in comparison with other gear?
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    No. I just use my Obi-Wan Force divination powers and imagine how things might sound like before giving people specific insights of how to get the most from HD650s.
     
  3. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    @rainer.skill You're probably not used to the midbass bump of the HD650. Both DT880 and HD800 have a much more linear bass in comparison.
     
  4. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    @rainer.skill he is being sarcastic, because cats are catty. But the HD650 does benefit from good source and amplification components. I didn't like it, or the HD600, when I heard them in the past. After a year or so of trying pretty much every headphone in the mid-fi range (Grados, Beyers, Hifiman, AKG, M50X, X2, Senn 598, etc.) I came back to the HD650 on recommendation of the people on this forum, paired it with a Schiit Multibit DAC and the Lyr 2 (now Valhalla 2) and I was genuinely stunned at how good it sounded, especially with mods. You can go back and find my posts from 6-9 months ago.

    The HD650 is infamous for "scaling" well beyond what its price tag suggests. The better the source and amp you throw at it, the better it sounds. If you haven't heard a multibit DAC, by the by, you owe it to yourself to do so. The Modi Multibit is $250 new.
     
  5. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    yes, many would deny that. try a different amp and source.
     
  6. rainer.skill

    rainer.skill New

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    Ye I got it, it was pretty obvious that he was sarcastic :)

    I just wanted to be sure if he heard it and was interested why the Hifi-M8 is considered bad. It wasn't cheap and it's on innerfidelity's wall of fame so I thought it would do pretty well but maybe I was wrong. Is it really that bad compared to low/medium priced schitt dac / amp?
     
  7. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    I can't comment on that myself, but I would guess it is at the very least not a good match with the HD650, or that you can do better for the price since it's made to be A) portable, B) light, and C) an all-in-one. You pay for those tradeoffs. I'm sure it sounds just fine: good, even. But not great with the 650. And you could get a great desk setup for that same amount of money. I think people like Marv who focus on price / performance ratios will tend to advise against products that are fine, but not great values. Because you could have great, so why not do so?
     
  8. Lasollor

    Lasollor Friend

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    I had the Centrance Hifi-M8 for about two years before I sold it. It was good enough with a MrSpeakers Alpha Dog I'd originally bought it for, but with the HD650 it sounded a little dark/warm and struggling with dynamics, like HD650 directly from a Chord Mojo, but less detailed.

    Adding a Vali2 (I used a WE396a tube) to the Mojo was a good enough improvement, that I never used the M8 again.

    Changing the Mojo to a Modi Multibit was an improvement again (I felt it had better treble, better bass but I really had to concentrate and compare them for weeks to fully appreciate the difference).

    Adding a Jotunheim had the biggest improvement on clarity and tightened the bass.
    Going to from Modi Multibit to Yggdrasil had the smallest perceivable effect with the HD650. (The most noticeable is that it has a cool "3D" effect on some tracks. )

    So I would say Modi Multibit+Vali2 can be a cost effective and significant improvement on the Centrance M8. A Modi Multibit+Jotunheim cost a little more but it can easily be endgame for the HD650, there isn't much room for improvement from there.
     
  9. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    Cant comment on the Hifi-M8, but I bought the JDS Element a while back after seeing some good words about it (it wasnt cheap either) and then had a meetup with @SKiring and realized it was just okay compared to his setup, and didnt pair well with the HD650. Of course his setup was way more expensive but a few months ago I got the GOV2A and found that it was definitely better in most areas, especially when we're talking synergy with the HD650.

    My findings matched well with the shootout comparison Marvey posted probably 8 months ago, so my initial skepticism (like you seem to have, which is normal) went away. Its fine to ask for specific details, its a good thing to do of course but sometimes you gotta take a leap of faith. I sorta did and now trust opinions from this community a lot more cause they do know what they're talking about (most of them anyway ;))..
     
  10. joeexp

    joeexp Don't ship this man FD-X1 ever

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    Can comment on the Hifi-M8; I have one here.
    Although using a supposedly 'very musical' AK4396 - it sounds just mediocre with the HD650, slightly better with a balanced connection.
    Nothing offensive and I can see what Centrance was trying to do.
     
  11. rainer.skill

    rainer.skill New

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    Thanks for your comments on the Hifi-M8. Maybe I have to test some schiit gear with the HD650.

    I'm testing the resonessance labs concero hp in comparison with the hifi-m8 right now. There are no audible sonic differences. Even straight out of my computer it sounds pretty much the same. Thus I am still very sceptical if the HD650 scales with better gear :)

    I guess i will get rid of my HD650 when my Ether Open arrives, at least I hope so.
     
  12. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    Well, you have that option, for sure :) whatever sounds best to you and makes you happy. But if you're saying the 650 sounds about the same sourced by your computer mobo outs versus out of external DAC/amp units, then maybe you are not a crazy person like us and should run away from here.

    But what personally made the most difference for me in being able to appreciate nuances in audio presentation was a Multibit DAC.
     
  13. rainer.skill

    rainer.skill New

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    (a bit off topic but) btw, why the hell is the resonessence concero hp on IF's wall of fame and very often recommended for in ears? With my ciem it is the worst thing I ever listend to, it has a TON of background noise, hiss, even clicking sounds when no music is played and it sounds just shit with my ciem.

    I hear some (subtile) differences with the HD650 mobo out vs external Dac/Amp but it's not that big, given the M8 and the concero cost both around 800€. If I pay 800€ for a better headphone, like a used HD800M, I get a night and day difference. In addition I never trust my hearing with electronics cauz im kinda objectivist and I am not sure if I could safely distinguish the differences in a blind test.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  14. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    Sensitivity can vary considerably between different IEMs or headphones. Separately: Tyll (IF reviewer) generally dislikes bright headphones or equipment. So it makes sense to me he would recommend dark leaning equipment... the 650 is more dark than bright. Maybe the 650 + H8 is too much dark for you.
     
  15. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    Clicking sounds? Maybe a crappy USB signal. Clean up your USB signal or get onto digital coax. Or maybe try it straight out of a CD player with digital coaxial.
     
  16. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    Instead of chasing new flavors in more and more expensive headphones, stick to only one and try out high-end DACs and amps. You can try out anything from Schiit for a period of 15 days with very small return fees. You'll come to realize that every headphone has its tradeoffs and strengths, regardless of price. Where real gains are to be had is with better, dedicated DACs and amps. I know, no one wants to spend a dime on DACs and amps. But if a pair of headphones doesn't show any difference between good and bad DACs and amps, can they even be considered good headphones? Objectively (not the cheapo "objective"), the headphone is meant to convert the signal the DAC and amp puts out into sound waves, so by that logic bad DACs and amps with the best headphones would only result in mediocrity at best (shit in shit out), right? Just try HD800s or HD650s with dedicated stuff, see how it goes. And don't expect yourself to notice it right away or do any AB, just listen. It isn't nor should it be a night and day difference, as all real improvements are in this hobby. And also, we have plenty of engineers/highly-logical/extremely reasonable people here who spend big bucks on DACs and amps so either we're all crazy or its not BS. If after 15 days you don't notice anything at all, you'll be done with all this crap. Otherwise, welcome to the crazyhouse.
     
  17. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I would not call 15% plus shipping in both directions a small fee. There are a number of other resellers that sell other brands with free shipping and no restocking fee. If you are gonna shop around knowing that you are likely to return items, schiit is not a good place to start. Go with a company that sells quality gear, free shipping to you, and no restocking fee.
     
  18. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    cool then, get the hd800 and enjoy!
    I like both 650 and 800 for different reasons, no right or wrong!
     
  19. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    That's 15% for their Magni/Modi-sized stuff and 5% for anything Asgard 2 and above. With a Multibit Bifrost and Jot, that works out to about 40$ plus shipping to try both of them out for 15 days, which is not too bad if he wants to try them out. But since he lives in Germany and the Schiit EU rep doesn't have a particularly good reputation, yes, he should look for other companies.
     
  20. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    The upside is that distance selling laws in the EU prevent things like "restocking fees" at all. Here, a customer is entitled to a full refund up to 14 days after receiving the goods.
     

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