Schiit Yggdrasil Stereophile Review + Measurements

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Truncated? No, rounded after DSP math at much higher precision.

    The only thing truncated are our prices.

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
     
  2. Smitty

    Smitty Too good for bad vodka - Friend

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    f**k it, life's too short to worry about the biases of audiophile press. I'll just reenable my adblocker on Stereophile to show my displeasure. Don't worry @Tyll Hertsens , you'll still get the ad revenue on Inner Fidelity when I visit, and MF will get the same on Analog Planet.

    Also, I hope you see a spike in sales when the new add rolls out @schiit
     
  3. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    On the other hand, I have to thank John Atkinson for giving us a great theme for an upcoming ad series, starting with:

    schiit_obsolete_stereophile_final_really.jpg

    Yep, we're obsolete.

    We use tubes.
    We use multibit DACs.
    We use discrete design.
    We use Class A and AB topologies.
    We use mechanical switches and relays, rather than touch screens and apps.
    We even use outdated manufacturing techniques, like sheet metal fab.
    And we're crazy enough to insist on doing this in the USA (long before it was fashionable.)
    Aaaaannnddd...our prices are straight out of the 1970s!

    Yes, we're obsolete. And we're 100% fine with that.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I worry about this because it's my mission to worry about this.

    --

    Also, if I were JA, I would not be so certain that the zero crossover hiccup is an indication of 20 bit behavior. This is what he says: With undithered 24-bit data at the same level (fig.7), although the overall shape of the reconstructed sinewave is good, you can see significant errors at the signal's zero-crossing points. Again, this will be due to the design choice to use 20-bit converters.

    I think that hiccup is related to something else at the zero crossing point. But I am not going to say. If it is what I am thinking, the Yggdrasil designers could have fixed it. But the probably left it because elegant solutions usually sound better.

    For reference, here is the Yggdrasil 1kHz -90.31 24-bit result:
    [​IMG]

    OK, now get this. This is the same measurement, but of the MSB Analog DAC.
    [​IMG]

    Which DAC looks like it has more bits to you?
     
  5. Smitty

    Smitty Too good for bad vodka - Friend

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    Given that one of the state of the art Dan D'Agostino amps with it's milled copper heat sinks had catastrophic thermal failure when JA was testing it, I think you guys have the right idea.
     
  6. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I love the parenthetical addition at the end of the obsolete ad. Keep disrupting the game!
     
  7. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    Man, what a mess this guy is making for himself on social media.
     
  8. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Not quite. Truncation would be just shortening the word depth. Rounding or saturation or other more clever techniques would be different process.
     
  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I think I asked this question to @atomicbob before @ CS. Here are his relevant measurements on the Yggdrasil:

    [​IMG]

    I think he mentioned it was crossover distortion. But I may be miss-remembering.
     
  10. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    That was my point.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I had a great opportunity to see John Atkinson's presentation on measurements a few years ago at THE SHOW in Irvine, CA. One PPT slide that I absolutely loved was "Measurements Lie". I totally understood what JA meant since this was during the infancy of my own work on measurements with headphones.

    What I find disturbing here is that the measurements here aren't so clear-cut, and if anything, the Yggdrasil measurements are better than the MSB Analog's. Yet JA's written summaries of the measurements that seem to favor the MSB Analog.

    Perhaps there should be a slide "People Lie".

    I am disappointed because JA had sort of been my hero.
     
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  13. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    My misread.:pirate07:
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Need sub-heading: "The sound of truncated (actually rounded after DSP math) bits"
    and "The only thing that is truncated is the price"
     
  15. Smitty

    Smitty Too good for bad vodka - Friend

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    I feel like there's some witty joke to be made about competitors and truncation, but that it would be wasted on anything except one of @baldr 's trade show shirts.

    I need to go look if JA does any testing with DSD files, and see what he has to say about 1-bit conversion. I bet there will be some grade-A hypocrisy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Does INL/DNL affect human tonal perception of DACs too and not just ENOB? Stuff that's obviously warmer sounding than neutral in the upper bass/lower mids measures flat on linearity tests yet discerning listeners can perceive the almost-oversatured sounding inner-warmth in stuff like ESS Sabres, most AD1955 implementations, and the Modi Multibit/Bifrost Multibit rather easily.
     
  17. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    Should also include an elephant (in the room) and something about trunk-ation [sic] .....
    :D
    Ps. I'll find myself out. DS.
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    The stereophile article is by Herb Reichert, not JA. Really have no idea if he's in charge of the Facebook messages.

    Edit: found measurements page. Forget I said this
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  19. HIFIDB

    HIFIDB New

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    Marvey, looking at your data and the data from JA I do see the same pattern emerging. Their is some mixing of the 19,20khz signal making spurs along side the main tones. I am not saying that it is bad, it looks very well controled. Compared to the other DAC mesuements shown it is far more linner, showing that the filtering and the analog is of the highest quality. These spurs are more a product of transistor non-linearity then of how long the digital word converted was.

    Edit: sorry if I miss understood the point of their beliefs that the noise floor they were measuring was periodic noise and not random noise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  20. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    A good thing the Schiit heads have addressed these points well before Stereophile's take. @baldr on truncation/rounding:
    and more:
    So Stereophile's "sound of truncation" makes me wonder if they know what they're talking about, or simply talking out of their collective arses...


    And now onto 24-bit data... Again, @baldr:
    Just one of his rants on the subject. My understanding is that with PCM you do not get linearity above 2^20, or just over 1 million levels (1048576 to be exact). As such, ALL so-called 24-bit recordings have some 4 effectively unused bits.

    Or, in the words of the man himself:
    So once more, I'm wondering if John Atkinson knows what he's talking about...
     

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