Sony MDR-Z1R

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by mrweirdude, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Rockin_Zombie

    Rockin_Zombie Facebook Friend

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    I went to a local store couple of weeks ago to try (and buy) the Z1R. Spent 30 mins with them. I was not that impressed, but now that I look back, I think I should have gone in with the mindset that it's a closed pair. I was expecting clarity to the level of an open set, that didn't happen. The bass was a bit overwhelming. The comfort was SUPERB, one of the comfiest I have ever worn.

    I ended up walking out with a pair of HD800S ( I know, shouldn't compare closed with open)
     
  2. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    Interesting choice.I sold my HD800S exactly because I got the Z1R. :)
     
  3. Rockin_Zombie

    Rockin_Zombie Facebook Friend

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    Hahha, may be two years down the road I will sell the HD800S and buy the Z2R? That's the best (worst) thing about this hobby, variations.
     
  4. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    True.

    I sold the HD 800 S when I got the Z1R for two reasons. The first is more practical and isn't an issue with the HD800S, merely my use case: At around that time I started doing my listening in a smaller apartment where I have less moments of full quietness. Often there's some background noise (someone watching TV, etc). The 800 are super permeable to background noise and even something small like a fan hum affected low level detail. I started enjoying them 100% only late at night when the entire world seemed quiet.

    That's the first reason that got me using the Z1R more often. The second is that while in that process I started noticing that I found them more fun overall. Midrange is a lot meatier, the low frequencies (particularly sub-bass) feel more natural without being boomy or wooly, the whole sound feels fuller and more inviting for some foot-tapping. Detail and resolution are all there, losing nothing to the 800, although in A/B it sometimes feels that way due to the smoothed out treble and the Z1R being less bright in general. Clarity remains, but it's not as obvious on a quick A/B comparison. A final bonus was that I could drive the Z1R out of almost anything, but the 800 always requires amping - that had no impact in the decision as it's part of the design, but I have to admit that in the past years I've started to prefer simpler designs that require less gear.

    I still like the 800S a lot. Maybe I'll get another pair in the future when I have my own listening room again and it becomes easier to "mute" the world at any time. Right now I have to admit that I only miss the 800S mostly for gaming. The Z1R have excellent soundstage and positioning for closed cans, but the 800 went considerably beyond that in giving a sense of space and air. They're outstanding gaming cans, although the lack of a fuller sound can also be a drawback sometimes.

    I actually love that airy holographic feeling of the 800, wouldn't mind finding a similar open headphone that has that same exact signature but with more body in terms of overall signature. Hmm, let's say, if the Z1R and the 800S had a child together, it would be one hell of a set I'd definitely buy. :)
     
  5. pedalhead

    pedalhead Friend

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    I can sympathize with this. I had a Z1R for a week and thought the same thing...bass was a bit much, and despite sounding quite open for a closed headphone it was still, well, a closed headphone. In retrospect it probably wasn't sensible to compare it to my outgoing HEK as the Z1R clearly wouldn't compete in natural bass response and soundstage. Taken in isolation, I do think it's the best closed headphone I've heard (I haven't heard the R10), and if I needed isolation in a full size headphone then it'd be top of my list. I don't though, so I actually ended up with a used HD800, modded and EQ'd to within an inch of its life and I'm actually quite happy with it. Plus, the cash I had left over from the rage-sale of the HEK went towards a tasty pair of speakers, a much better value proposition!
     
  6. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

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    I was actually going to send mine to Ultrabike as I usually send him a few headphones but, I never thought I'd be so addicted to them! Listening to the Ether-C Flows now is actually, kind of boring... :( The Flows are nice but not Z1R nice. I might try a new one soon (NightOwls?) and it might take me away from the Z1Rs, but not sure... probably not. LOL
     
  7. chopstix

    chopstix Canali at HF (keeping him close)

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    wish someone carried them here in vancouver but no luck so far....am a bit torn
    between these and the upcoming mysphere cans.....awaiting the reviews (hopefully in March).
     
  8. GelockS

    GelockS Friend

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    Open vs Closed.
    Meh on MySphere... ;)
     
  9. chopstix

    chopstix Canali at HF (keeping him close)

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    yeah, doesn't matter so much for me...i'm reading these sonys don't sound as compressed as other closed cans.
    and those mysphere look to be an interesting model and approach (for of an updated akg k1000 it seems).
    http://www.mysphere.at/
    if they can really take the sound of our heads better than most cans, and the SQ is there, then it'll be very interesting.
    related is an article below by Tyll when writing for stereophile.
    he notes so far that the only credible commercially available tech able to replicate 3D speaker-like sound is the Smyth Realiser.

    'Of headphones to come'
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/headphones-come

    but not to derail this thread, I hope that the loaner program comes this way for the sonys.
    would love to have a listen...now if only the company would do an updated re-release on the beloved ex800st iems, too....
    ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  10. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    They definitely can, well, "better than most cans". As in closed cans. Add the usual "to my ears" disclaimer", but I really like having an holographic speaker-like sound whenever possible and the Z1R are very good at it, but for closed cans.

    Doing A/B with something like the HD 800/800S, I was amazed at how spacious the Z1R sound, but again, for closed cans. The 800 considerably more satisfying in that aspect. However, if you want the good things that come with closed cans, there is also a price to pay...

    Just been listening to Keb Mo's "Slow Down" and some Fleetwood Mac before bed and yup... it's sound all around. I do feel like taking them off and getting good open cans for extra air sometimes, but when isolation or a truly fun bass are important, well...

    Don't see how the NightOwls might be a match. I've heard good things about the Eikon tho, but haven't been able to listen to them (not exactly common here in Europe). I'd have no problem going for them if they prove to be a better overall choice than the Z1R, but I seriously doubt that is possible. Ears open, tho...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2017
  11. chopstix

    chopstix Canali at HF (keeping him close)

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    I know that Tyll, when at the RMAF show, spoke positively of them upon first impressions...and was hoping he'd get in a pair to further review...but its' been some months now....hope we'll hear something sooner rather than later.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  12. Phoebus7

    Phoebus7 New

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    Are there any comparison with MrSpeakers Ether C Flow with Sony Z1R or even B&W P9? I own the Ether C Flow and wondering if I should sell my Ether Flows. I also have Focal Elear and enjoy these when time and situation permits. Also good to know if bass on Z1R is even more than Elear. I wish if Z1R has the transient response and clarity of Ether and Bass of Elear :)
     
  13. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So, just got my loaner pair from @blubliss yesterday, who was such a gentleman that he came by and delivered it in person! (Thank you very much, kind sir!) :bow:

    Knowing that I won't have much time to be at home and listen more to Z1R come next week, I have done a lot of listening yesterday, and will be doing the majority of the listening today as well. Anyway, 24-hour impressions go as follow:

    1) It's not bad. Frequency response is decent. My first impressions were that upper mid seemed accentuated, but upon closer analysis, what it really is is probably just some midrange shout/resonance that most closed-back headphones run into, plus a function of the overall frequency response versus distortion mechanism. Note that I'm still not talking about measurements or anything at this point. This is purely just from my experience hearing other headphones, and knowing how those headphones measure. In a nutshell, I'd "guess" that Z1R is overall a dark-ish headphone, with perhaps some midrange shout, probably around 2-3KHz or so? And then treble is a bit weird like how it's dark but quite shimmery/zingy. Gotta hand it to Sony for being able to keep this headphone from sounding super bassy, though. It's kinda not bassy at all, or at least not relative to my other headphones. It's not that bright, but it's weirdly shouty/glassy/zingy. Kinda reminds me of Elear but... (and we'll get to that but soon). I can't quite say Z1R is bright, but it's not bassy, and it's definitely not a "relaxed" sound either. It's kinda like... warm-ish sounding.

    2) Overall driver response is decent but doesn't sound uber fast for me. It sounds just like any other normal dynamic headphone overall. Maybe a touch better than Z7, but a hair slower than good bio-cellulose drivers. Caveat: I'm also a huge bio-cellulose fan, much like Marv. I have 2 closed-back bio-cellulose headphones with me now to compare with Z1R, and it does fare pretty well for a stock headphone (;)). But... it's just not that "ZOMG, amazeball!", ya know. The driver just can't seem to decide whether it wants to be fast or slow. Bass is very very very slow relative to my bio-cellulose headphones. The other headphones make Z1R sound like a blur in comparison. On the other hand, Z1R catches up when it comes to the treble range, and in fact, I think I understand what Sony engineers are doing here. They wanted Z1R to have a "refined" treble range with enough "zing" and "sparkles" so that things don't sound boring. Z1R is almost like some Audio Technica headphones to me that way. It's not like Denon/Fostex in this regard. If anything, I should applaud Sony for being able to pull off this treble range, considering how horribad Z7 was in this regard. However, however, however... (can't stress that enough), I feel like they should have made bass sound faster to compliment the treble range. Basically, Z1R has $10 bass and $500 treble to me. Yes, it's that bad. Technicality is all over the place and it's hard to nail down exactly what's wrong. Perhaps Sony's speshul sauce dedicated Z1R DAC/amp thing will augment this, and maybe my home gears are just that bad (as they're tuned to drive headphones like HD600, etc...), but... honestly, I think Z1R has "okay" technicality, not even "decent". Like it's just workable, and not completely horribad like some Audio Technica headphones, but it's not amazeballs either. Arrggghh, seriously, I can't help but describe it as something that's not quite there. But the thing is... it's so close. Just like Z7 was. Sony was so close. They nailed the treble! I don't know why they didn't spend more time to nail the bass. If they'd done just that, at least Z1R would be a contender for a closed-back headphone. As it is, I think it stops at being "almost". Oh, and going back to the first point, this is the "but" part compared to Elear as well. I don't think I need Elear with me to tell Elear is significantly faster sounding than Z1R, despite frequency response of both headphones being quite similar.

    3) Nitpicking aside (simply because Z1R is priced $1500 higher than it should have been IMO, but eh...), I honestly quite enjoy the way Z1R sounds. It's not "too offensive" on my gears, and yet it's also not "too boring". I can't quite say that for a lot of stock headphones (those who know me well know what I mean. ;) ). It is kinda "my kinda sound". But... it would have been better if the bass could reach lower, and the treble zing peak could be higher to give Z1R a bit more air. At times, I find Z1R a bit like... compressed-sounding, where how the bass doesn't wanna go low enough, and the treble doesn't wanna go high enough. It's certainly "bigger sounding" than how I remember Z7, but it's not quite to the same scale as an open-back headphone. Heck, my Koss Porta Pro (caveat: modded) sounds "bigger" than Z1R. But, as @blubiss told me yesterday, and I agree, "Z1R should be compared to closed-back headphones", and I concur. As a closed-back headphone, it's decent. Certainly on about the same footing as TH-X00, etc... Hence why I said MSRP should have been $1500 less. Or, let's say, with current inflation rates, I'd say Z7 should be like $399, and Z1R should be like $799. That's their realistic price points IMO.

    4) Tried swapping Z1R pads out for something else, too. Oh yeah, you can totally do that. The mechanism is exactly like Z7. Sound changed. I don't think I liked it at all. I think stock pads are best. So... if you have Z1R, don't bother. ;)
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Ether C Flow and Z1R are totally different sound. Z1R is slowish and compressed in bass and average at best everywhere else. It's kind of a romantic sound. C Flow has much faster transients and is brighter and much leaner in the bass. Both scale moderately, but not greatly with better gear.
     
  15. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So, day 2 of Z1R. I couldn't come to like it out of my GO2A, so I tried it out of my MacBook directly, just for kicks. Guess what? It sounded... different. But not the good kind of difference.

    Directly out of the MacBook, Z1R sounds significantly thinner than out of GO2A. This kinda helps offset a bit of the muddy/thick bass, but overall it sounds a bit flatter, less warm, and less impactful. Kinda... bland actually, and the shout becomes worse as well. Out of GO2A, it's a lot more refined/calmer/warmer/easier, and bass gains back the impact but it's just so thick and slow. Again, both of my bio-cellulose closed-back headphones (one is the D5K and the other is the EMU Fostex CAL thing) are significantly faster sounding in the bass, while being just as impactful.

    Will try with some amps to see if Z1R will like anything else I have, but so far, it doesn't look like it'll play nice with any of the portable options.
     
  16. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    @Bill-P do you have a Jotunheim by chance? I found the Jotunheim/Z7 pairing to be very pleasing (minus the resonance). I'm curious if the Z1R responds equally as positive...
     
  17. blubliss

    blubliss Friend

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    I could lend you the mini Dynalo SS but you'd need to feed it balanced, I don't think the SE is hooked up? They sound decent out of it.
     
  18. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    I was so excited to try the Z1R's out of the 4.4mm balanced output of my 1Z DAP, so rushed over to the Sony booth at CanJam NYC. They were very nice at the booth, and impressed that I had my own 1Z and the proper balanced cables, so they gave me a pair to play with as long as I wanted. After using the balanced output of the 1Z with both my Vega's and Ether C Flows, I was, in one word, unimpressed by the Z1R's. YMMV (and all that other HF crap), but the Z1R's didn't move me. I was sure that with the Sony-Signature to Sony-Signature pairing I would experience aural fireworks, but sadly didn't. They're solid HP's, for sure, and I had just listed to the new AEON's right beforehand, but as Marvey said, the Z1R's were a bit slow and didn't grab me at all. Still love my 1Z, but have no desire to pair them with their Sony brother. Cheers
     
  19. beowulf

    beowulf Guest

    I think you should spend more time with the Z1R. It's not a model for first impressions, at least it was not to me and a few others. I'm not someone who takes burn-in into account, but it took me some time to fully understand the Z1R tuning.

    I did a lot of A/B with the CD3000, which IMHO is a great bio-cellulose headphone and definitely see that point about the bass, but it has so many positive aspects that I'm still quite happy with it. It does a lot of things right and I definitely don't think it should be priced at the range you mentioned, not even close.

    It's a very interesting headphone, with a lot of bass impact but without being exaggerated, warm and smooth, nicely non-fatiguing, but at the same time having a strange high-mids and treble resolution and sharpness that is very revealing (even sibilant in rare occasions). Not perfect in every way, but still a great achievement.
     
  20. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Just had a chill morning with @Bill-P over at the house to listen to a few different things (will post some brief impressions in the relevant threads)... He brought over the Z1R that he had on loan. Very brief impressions after a fairly brief session, but I don't see my impressions changing with longer sessions given that the impressions hit me pretty much right away. A more nuanced impression, for me, won't undo what I didn't like about the sound. YMMV.

    First, the good: What that struck me off the bat was how extremely f'ing comfortable and soft and pillowy and super light these are. Before plugging them in, I had visions of how these could be the perfect office headphone for those looking for a closed back. Sound-wise it does a couple things pretty well, it's fairly non-offensive tonality wise, the cups seem really nice and doesn't sound too closed in despite being fully closed... But all of this was rendered somewhat moot by what to me were the big drawbacks...

    So, the bad: I loaded up a few songs off of Graceland for the standard run of the mill tests. I was instantly struck by how soft and slow these sounded. Indeed, drum hits on boy in the bubble and diamonds on the soles of her shoes sounded as pillowy and non-impactful as the headphones themselves resting on my head. Next, loaded up some Miles Davis, trumpets lacked all bite, no soul piercing going on here. Next loaded up Daft Punk, bass sounded kinda bloomy and soft again. Finally loaded some Eric Clapton unplugged, his voice was pretty far away and distant sounding. In short, I can't imagine feeling engaged, involved and pulled in by the music on these headphones.

    Overall I'd say these might suit the tastes and goals of some folks, but definitely not for me. Listening was done on the ZX-2 and iPhone, and on the HP-1 and Jotunheim via Gungnir Multibit.
     

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