Nearfields for audiophile listening?

So is that what you replaced your Equators with?

 

Looks like I've found someone crazy enough to buy my Q12's. No deal yet, but it looks promising.

After that it's a matter of finding the best logistics solution for Questeds. Unless someone nabs them before me.

 

Good luck! I rarely see Quested's come up on the used market.

 

you're right, and its weird that good stuff gets lost in the noise so easily. I've been looking on marktplaats (and ebay-kleinanzeigen for german ads) ever since you mentioned them and I've barely found anything.

Dont get me wrong - I really like my Dynaudio X12, but after moving and repositioning these things as much as possible I either lose all bass below 100Hz or have a huge null somewhere between 100-140 Hz so now I'm just e drooling at other stuff

 

I saw some S7R's a while ago because the guy was upgrading to the S8R but that's it...

Have you tried putting the X12's really close to the wall? Maybe some bass traps would help if you havent't already, acoustics are way more important then speakers imo. I have done some quite serious room treatment to get the best sound, my room is pretty shit without it.

Going against the general wisdom might work for you, for example i have my speakers against the long wall in a rectangular room, i just put absorbtion behind the seating position. Also i have superchunk basstraps in the two front corners, broadband absorbers behind the speakers and i treated the first reflection points. For me having the speakers face the length of the room cause the same kind of bass problems you have and i could not get it right with lots of treatment, perhaps with two subwoofers but i doubt it.

 

That's exactly my problem right now. In my previous room, the speakers faced the width of the room and while it wasnt perfect, it sounded okay and some minor DSP/EQ (right now I cant deal with treatment because I'm going to move atleast once more this year - problems of an exchange student) made it quite nice. Now, its a similar room but since the bed is too large to put in the same place it was in the previous room, the desk/speakers have no option but to face the length of the room and it sounds really crappy. Lots of nonexistent bass, a depressed midrange and a Mansilla 10kHz peak. I spent a lot of time with measurements/EQ and finally got something half decent but that's only applicable to my digital setup unfortunately.

I had some really nice foam with loads of tentacles all over the place come in at the university - think of the pyramids on regular treatment and replace them with tentacles (not sure how it would do for acoustics, but it was a start). I asked if I could use it once they took out all the parts that came packaged in it and they said I could the next day but unfortunately the foam had disappeared by the time i got there the next morning.

I'm gonna see if I can find something to put behind me, but considering I'm here for just over 2 months before I move, I would probably just live with it as is if i cant find anything

 

I'm not a big fan of foam if it's possible high density rockwool or similar all the way. I see dsp more as the finishing touch, get as much done analog with traps etc, dsp can't improve RT60 for example. But if you're moving again in 2 months i wouldn't bother too much with it and just get a decent headphone setup. Though you will probably learn some things you can apply to future rooms.

 

Any "theoretical" objections against Quested V2108 in a yet non-treated 16 square meter room (= 172 square feet)?

They would be seated on stands and I've got Dirac Room Correction as last resort.

Don't know how much treatment will be possible in this room, actually. But then again, I will move to another place this or next year anyway. I will consider audio related aspects when searching for the new apartment, of course.

EDIT: Hanging stuff against wall reflections and diffusors on the walls will be possible to a certain extent , I just don't have room for bigger stuff like bass traps and the like.

 

Yeah I dont think that foam wouldve helped with bass issues but I wanted to see how it would help, if at all. I'm definitely learning now, it was a big surprise to see that the speakers facing the length of the room actually have more issues.

Not a theoretical objection, but based on experience - don't do it. I've been struggling with this for some time now. I bought my dynaudio x12 from a guy who had a nice treated room and it has not sounded close to that in any of the rooms I've been in since getting it. It was relatively okay in my 27sqm room that I started in, because of the thick curtains and furniture and what not. Now I'm in a 16sqm room with no treatment and it's the worst it's ever been. DSP helps a little bit, but if I use too much it actually sounds worse.

If you're okay with making a compromise, or you're getting a really good deal then go ahead. You will see how much better it can get by moving them around and treating the room when you get to it. But if you want good sound right off the bat, it's probably better to get a good pair of headphones

 

Room dimensions will dictate room modes. Distance from loudspeakers will dictate the direct/reflected sound mix. Model the room, stay in near-field and you should be okay. Use DIRAC for subtractive EQ.

 

I can get them at a bargain and I can return them.

Only problem: I have only demoed Neumann 120+310 and Eve 207 so far. Didn't like the Neumanns because of too harsh and fatiguing treble. I liked the Eve, though. Just didn't want DSP because of Gungnir Multibit.

I guess I'll just get the 2108s and then demo as many nearfield monitors as possible in that short returning period.

 

I disagree with big speaker size in normal rooms dont work. unless your room is 8 x 8...
v2108 are not big speakers. in another time not tool long ago, anything under 15 or 12 inch woofers speaker were considered toys. now 8 inch woofer are too big lol

ive had BIG speakers in 10 x14 rooms measure better then smaller speakers. small or big speakers will sound like crap if wrongly placed. its more that with bigger speaker, you really have to understand your room cause otherwise they will show you you room modes, smaller speakers just dont excite the lowest room modes.
and no, its not about treating your room either: everybody know how hard it is to treat a 50hz dip of 40hz peak, the way to deal with those is with proper speaker placement and listening position placement.
its all about understaning your room modes and knowing how to avoid them at the LP

quested v2108 are amazin!!! go for it if you like them, imo, they are not that big of a speaker at all. 8 inch are considered toys for many

 

I think the Neumanns don't have harsh and fatiguing treble per se, they are just extremely fussy about what they are fed with. They are a LOT fussier than the HD800 for example, which are a paragon of smoothness by comparison. It took me a solid 6 months of experimentation to get the treble sounding good on them, but it's definitely possible. In particular, from my experience:

• USB source ain't gonna cut it. The treble will sound harsh.
• Direct connection Gungnir Multibit -> Neumann probably ain't gonna cut it. The treble will sound sibilant and harsh. You need a preamp in between.
• The wrong interconnects (too much capacitance, too much shielding, ground loops) ain't gonna cut it. The treble will sound harsh.
  
• Mounting on a desk or on foam pads ain't gonna cut it. If you don't have them properly decoupled, the treble will sound harsh.

I'm not suggesting you get the Neumanns and do all these things, just pointing out that the harsh and fatiguing treble is not IMO an inherent quality.

 

Is Gungnir Multibit incapable of driving a >13kOhm load? If so, @schiit must be notified of this.

It will form a low pass filter, hence treble will be attenuated and its prominence will diminish. See here - http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-cable.htm

How much is too much shielding? Is there an optimum of background noise which should be injected in the line to attain best treble performance?

Please explain the mechanics of this.

 

This is a pretty tough situation, would think that any speaker would initially disappoint given such a test. If you just can't give your room studio acoustics, and most people can't/won't, then as @jayeshrc goes on to say, thick curtains, soft furnishings, general non-rattling, non-resonating stuff can help to make the best of things.

At least you know that, if you ever do get a treated room, new speakers won't be needed!

 

Real interconnects will have negligible effect from capacitance (100kHz low pass?). What might be hidden there is the charging/discharging mechanisms and frequency, voltage selective losses.
Ie parasitics of all sorts. This might explain in part why some differences in interconnects can be heard, also why coupling capacitors sound very different.

 

It's a 14k load, but you need to attenuate about 36db somewhere to get a reasonable listening level. You can do 24db on the monitors themselves but it seems to sounds pretty unpleasant in the treble. I have no idea what the mechanism is but I suppose it is something to do with impedance.

Well, my empirical observations are: Mogami 2534 seems to lead to unpleasant sibilance and harshness. 2549 is better but still not great. 3080 is better still. Leaving the shield connected at both ends also seems to be problematic. All this seems to be correlated to capacitance and shielding, but I actually have no idea of the mechanism. @Priidik seems to have a better idea than me.

Absolutely no idea. I am as confused as the next man. I had my monitors mounted on Auralex Mopads on an IKEA desk (the desk is by necessity).
I switched the Mopads out for Herbie's Electrosonic Dots, which are some kind of mildly woo-woo hard silicon compound spacers designed for putting under monitor speakers to decouple them. Whatever the Mopads were doing to the monitors was clearly not good, as the treble became significantly smoother afterwards. Bass and imaging cleaned up as well, which is more obviously reasonable.

Basically I have been forced down this road of doing weird things in an attempt to get smooth treble out of these speakers. Many of these weird things did nothing, but all of the above changes did and all were necessary to get there.

Another note: all of the unpleasantness with the treble only became noticeable after putting the monitors on a power conditioner. Without a power conditioner, the treble was smeared out and imprecise enough that the sibilance and harshness were less noticeable. After the above changes I can use them on the power conditioner and get smooth AND precise treble.

 

Interesting. I guess I prefer a speaker that has smooth treble out of the box (besides room treatment).

In that regard I prefer HD650 over Utopia by the way.

 

Nooooooooooooooooo, just ordered my Furman

 

Well this is a handy dandy thing... http://www.haningemusik.se/en/accessories/1587-acoustitape.html