Spying on your kids

I once attended a conference on suicide prevention where a presenter tried to argue that the movie Titanic romanticized and therefore encouraged suicide...Certainly if we can't help/ trust our children to handle the emotions evoked by a piece of fiction, what chance do they have in understanding that life will inevitably involve suffering and that acceptance of this fact can go a long way in
alleviating some of that suffering.

 

@Ringingears - great points!

Makes me think of the Trust Equation, which says that Trust = (Credibility + Reliability + Intimacy)/Self-interest. Hadn't thought about how to apply this to kids/teens yet (and probably good to think through as my older daughter turns 13 in a few weeks!).

In terms of Credibility, not sure if you can really spike this one with teens, as they often don't put a lot of weight on a parents knowledge, although it never hurts to know what you're talking about, but can be harder to relate.

For Reliability, I think that's a real important part here. Not doing what you say you are going to do with teens is a major issue, and they keep score no matter how much you think they might not be paying attention.

For Intimacy (this has to do with human-human interactions, not anything to do with "relationship" type of intimacy) I would say this is about finding ways to spend time and have interactions that build bonds. Finding common ground with teens clearly is tough, but necessary to find.

Finally for Self-Interest, to minimize this divisor I guess it would be showing kids that you're also focused on their interests.

Anyway, just some musings. Would love to hear others thoughts. Cheers

 

Another great point. The former head of our kids school used to have a great line on this point. He would ask parents "How many of you want your kids to be problem solvers?", and naturally everyone in the room would raise their hand. Then he would say "How many of you give your kids problems to solve?", and there were many confused looks on parents' faces, especially the helicopter-types.

 

At least a few local suicides and attempted suicides by kids because of these.

 

I fix computers door to door. Inevitably I have parents who will ask me to limit computer usage and or content for their kids. The truth is the kids are usually way smarter about computers than the parents who try to utilize me as the enforcer.

I will never forget two stories. The first was a about a step father who asked me to limit his step son's access to the internet because the son had been accused of viewing child porn. I told him to remove all computers from the house and get the son therapy. But that wasn't a solution that was practical for them. So I went to work putting the security in place to keep the son from getting internet access. When I finished I told the step father that there was simply no way that the son could gain internet access and that without knowing the passwords and protocols that I'd created he simply would not get access period. The first weekend after I'd put the security measures in place, the son went to Office Depot, bought a new hard drive, replaced the original drive in the PC and reinstalled windows and got unrestricted access to the net. I learned a valuable lesson that day.

The second story is about the most rigid and controlling parent I've met. She wanted to control anything and everything her son did on the computer. In large part she was successful. I don't know about when her son was away from home, but at home she was pretty good at controlling his internet activities and his life for that matter. And then he went away to college, and basically went wild. And not just the with the internet. The ending to this story is that he was arrested by police, butt naked in the middle of campus after taking a hit of acid.

Both of the son's in the above are in jail still to my knowledge. I'm sure that there is some moral and wisdom to be taking from the events that happened but you'll have to conjure it up for yourselves.

 

See, this is exactly the problem. Smothered to hell and stifled in his ability to form real friendships, so there's no buddy to talk him down out of his naked parade ambitions when he's tripping balls. Bet you some kid dosed him just to see what would happen. And I'm only half kidding.

 

Careful on ascribing blame for suicidal behavior.

 

I'll tell anybody, of any age (within reason, I suppose), who wants to know, about the psychedelic experiences of my youth, in so far as I can remember them. There's some quite funny stuff there, still makes me laugh to think about it. And I'll tell them, really, thinking you can fly and jumping off the roof? Not saying it never happened, but mostly people who go seriously and dangerously crazy on [those sort of] chemicals were, at least latently, crazy to begin with, and the rest is made up by the media. But my final words on all that, forty-five years later, are: no I don't really regret doing it, but, in retrospect, I would not put anything that powerful into something as sensitive as a brain.

And, been out of touch with this stuff for a long, long time, but to me, today, a tab of acid would scream How do you know what chemical(s) this really is.

My friend went to his son's Advice On Drugs From A Cop meet. My friend (an accountant now) was a tripped out hippy before I was: I looked at him, lke, WTF? He said, No: the information and advice was absolutely straight accurate and honest, and not of the get "addicted" to cannabis, die in the gutter with needles in your arms, kind. It was about real risks, and also about what is not such a real risk. I was impressed. On drugs, youngsters need real information, and, being quick to pick up the bullshit vibe, will ignore the real warnings when they are mixed with ignorance. And just just say no is ridiculous --- especially in a world where alcohol and tobacco are still legal and approved.

 

Great touch, drugs seem to be getting more accessible to a younger and younger audience, having a frank discussion about the real risks could on one hand be a double edge'd sword. Kids aren't as SCARED as they were, but at the same time fear is a poor way to influence or restric some one. Because at a certain point, a child will have an impossible problem and fear might push them into an impossible solution, being educated helps them not just as a child in your home but as an adult on their own.

I grew up around users and saw both the risks and the rewards, I felt that abuse of anything almost always yields more pain than pleasure, for not only yourself but also your family

So with everything becoming more accessible these days sex,drugs ect... it's good to see people working to make sure truthful and accurate information is just as available. Uneducated fear, only leads to un-educated decisions , and getting into something risky by yourself may not always end well. Whether that's meeting some one you've only spoke to online, or dropping your first hit. I always felt it was good to at least reach out to some one if your unsure about a decision that you've made. Having my mom or dad there to support me when I'm making or doing something stupid has always been nice! I haven't gotten my self into ANY CRAZY DO OR DIE situations just yet, but I've made some bad mistakes and have had to live with the consequences. Had my parents been more restrictive or secretive about all the crazy stuff out there, I might not have opened up to them. An having found my self in a situation were I really need some help or guidance if there wasn't any one who knew were I was or there to help me... I might not be where I am today... but thankfully I did have my parents there,

 

Many parents just don't get how smart kids are. My parents were the type that would make me close my eyes anytime a naked human being showed up on the TV (because apparently nipples were just TOO MUCH for my developing mind). Little did they know, I would just watch the stuff when they left the house. Lucky for them (and me I guess), smartphones were not a thing until I was in college, so I never had to undergo my parents spying on everything I do online (growing up, we didn't get internet until the late 90's and it was just shitty dial-up for a long time). Unnecessarily shielding children can cause great harm to their mental development and how they view the world and people around them.

If a child is old enough to ask a question, then they are old enough to hear the answer.

Sounds like these parents have some serious mental issues that they need to talk to someone about. Those kids minds are going to be warped as adults.

 

Having come of age in the late 60's and early 70's I can say that lying about anything to kids, sex, drugs etc. will backfire big time. A lot of us found out we were being lied to about marijuana. Too many of my friends, when they realized the lie, thought they were lying about all drugs. Some got themselves into serious addictions with other drugs as a result. Honest answers, appropriate to a child's age is in my opinion the best way to go. It establishes trust and encourages open communication. Yes, teenagers don't often believe adult advice or perhaps don't want to. But if they trust you to tell the truth, they are more likely to listen. The best one can hope for is they will make good decisions based on good information. It's not realistic to think they will always will make the best choice. What person has done that? And not giving them a chance to make any choice will, in my experience, result in poor decisions when they leave to go to college. Hence running around naked tripping over their balls.

 

I think kids behavior depends heavily of the surroundings, not only kids, but kids adapt more easily.
Shitty friends is worst that can happen. At this point parental guidance can't help much.
I simply missed out on doing any drugs because I didn't hang out with town's kids.
I don't think any kid will do drugs or beat up homeless on their own.
Level of stupidity is exponential to the no. of shit generators combined.

You are right, nobody directly involved can know for sure, it could have been bad love or what ever.
I happen to know some of their parents though and if I were to put myself in their skin I would have ended myself way sooner.
One case in particular would fall into this category, a mom 'fixin up' her 15yo son after pe class in dressing room:

 

Indeed.

I never abused drugs. I was always polite and friendly to them. Hence I had far more pleasure than pain.

But the power of LSD in a supersensitive organ called brain: Yep, the not-so-good experiences happened too.

My parents didn't have a clue about drugs, other than tobacco and alcohol. My grandparents, though, had they been available to me then, just might have been more useful. Apparently, those Charleston days were wild. Again, the young think they're the first, but they/we are not.

I am glad that I was interested in, and fell in with people who were into cannabis and stronger psychedelics, rather than opiates, etc. When I did see it, I was easily able to recognise the life-destroying nature of barbiturates, heroine, etc. And my response to cocaine was Thank god I can't afford this. Because, frankly, I wasn't ever that good at the the moderation word. I'm glad that it didn't flow in the circles that I moved in, and I'm glad it wasn't opium that was passed around in the evenings.Even the grass put me to sleep most days. I later learned that I was considered a very boring visitor!

The children (and grandchildren, I suppose) of the Sixties children, should have easy access to such information. And it should be given to them, because, although I no longer keep up (heck, I don't even drink alcohol any longer), I know that some of the chemicals on the street really are more dangerous than anything I might have come in touch with.

And yet... still there is a "war on drugs" which mostly just serves to criminalise people. And still the media churns out rubbish on the dangers of cannabis etc (not entirely safe, whatever some people say: those who suffer from schizophrenia should avoid it like the plague. But hey, peanuts can kill.)

And "drugs," right? Include alcohol and tobacco whenever people say that. Again, to me, it is absurd that two of the most addictive and health/socially damaging drugs are the legal ones. It's just an accident of economics and commerce. I hear tell that binge-drinking is a big problem among some people in some American colleges these days.

I'll shut up about this now. It's just that, out of all those things that young (and not so young) people could do, it was the one I actually did. And I seriously missed out on some of the others. I wish I could talk about the dangers of STDs (AIDS hadn't hit us yet, although we were hearing rumours) but I sooo shy. Damn: sex is more fun than drugs!

 

@Priidik

"One case in particular would fall into this category, a mom 'fixin up' her 15yo son after pe class in dressing room"

Poor kid, I hope he makes it through.

Some interesting research about stress in childhood

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/about.html

 

I just want to say that what started off as an indignant post about a stupid app, has turned into a rather thoughtful thread about parenting.

Kudos to you guys!

 

I couldn't agree more with this statement, though I'd flip it around and say that "GREAT friends are the best thing that can happen"

We all want our kids to have strong character and resist "peer pressure" but as a kid you really do need to feel like you "belong" and in some situations you may not have all that much choice over who your friends will be.

We've made a point all along of keeping our 8 year old daughter and 10 year old son busy with sports and the arts. And our motivation has always been along the lines of keeping them busy = keeping them out of trouble. My perspective on this strategy is that the real benefit actually comes from having another set of prospective friends outside of school or your neighborhood. Not only that, these are people who are like minded in their interests who's parents are like minded in their priorities. Both our kids are better people because of the relationships they've been able to establish outside of school at martial arts, competitive dance, baseball, musical theater etc.

 

Agree with all said here about making sure there are really good friends and not crappy friends. We also look at the parents, as there can be a high correlation of crappy parents to crappy kids, although the part I can flax a bit on is when my kid can be the "good kid" to try and help a kid with crappy parents - and in those situations we make sure we keep an even more open dialog with our kid(s). Love when they can be a force for good, but don't want them pulled the other direction. Cheers

PS - Also like the direction this thread has gone. Maybe a sub-forum of "SuperBestAudioFriendsWhoHelpEachOtherWithParentingAdvice"? Guess that would be SBAFWHEOWPA. Try to say that five times fast...

 

As an acronym, or as an abbreviation?

 

I know it's late in the day, but wanted to wish all of you dads out there a Happy Father's Day! And I realize it's only celebrated today in the US, Canada and UK but figured it was a good call-out for all the dads in this thread no matter where you live. Cheers all!