General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    x2 on a studio monitor for a few reasons.

    The LS50 wireless is $3,000 CAD retail. For that kind of money, I would opt for something like an Adam A7X pair (or Genlecs, Quested etc) + Schiit Gungnir multibit. Conversely you could go to a larger or more elaborate cabinet and if it accepts RCA, a Schiit Modi multibit would suffice. My humble opinion is that a Gungnir Multibit is a better long-term purchase as it is a very high quality and great sounding dac with pretty much any input and output you'd want (less AES-in).

    The studio monitor is great especially for smaller environments with bass/neighbour considerations as you can tune the speaker to your taste and neighbours. It also takes the guess work/fiddling out matching power/pre/speaker synergy. Moreover, if the time comes to sell, studio monitors are pretty easy to unload.

    In both setups, speaker stands needs to be also factored in. And obviously buying used will get you a better product, minus a warranty.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    What you are looking for is "fast" bass. You won't get that with the self-powered monitors under $1000. All of these monitors have shit for cabinets. With the volumes that are sold, the manufacturers want to keep shipping costs down. This means less weight. Less weight means shit cabinets. Shit cabinets means blurry bass.

    The secondary reason already alluded to on the big woofers posts: small drivers that can extend and produce a decent volume require more excursion. Long throw woofers with their big surrounds tend to sound sluggish.
     
  3. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    93
    do you also think that stereo sub, if each subs next to each mains, can be crossed at 80hz? I see many who recommend this.

    I think I begin to agree with subs crossed to high, at least a mono sub. ive went retroactively from 100hz, to 80hz to the lowest XO setting on my REL (30 hz). the weird thing about REL lowest crossover setting is that even at the lowest setting, im about -10db at 100hz, basically flat to 80hz.

    look my measurements of the lowest xo setting (30hz) on the REL at the listening position
    [​IMG]
     
  4. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    In the wind, so to speak
    Home Page:
    While we're on the subject of good bass... I'm in the mind palace planning phase for building some new speakers. Do @Marvey or any others have comments on the bass quality of let's say something like a nifty thrifty 15" pro woofer (like the Eminence 15a) in a ported vs. sealed box? I know there probably too many variables to really generalize well, but any tips or pointers? Space is at a premium for me and that's a large part of what drives my thinking about how I might size these speakers.
     
  5. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How low/loud do you want to go and how much efficiency are you looking to get? I'll tell you right away that for pro audio woofers sealed boxes will be a no go. I recently finished a pair of 200l boxes which have considerable output at 18Hz and peak out at 124dB 23Hz in room per pair. Efficiency should be around 96dB/W/m which means I can get away with 400W/ch amps, instead of kilowatts.

    The problem with sealed boxes is that you'll need very excursion capable drivers which will often leave their linear travel distance and they'll be heavy. Heavy is not a problem if you have enough magnet for the coils to grip, but at least for Dayton Ultimax which seem to be favorites amongst HT guys, they have very little. So ideally you need to be looking for a high Bl, low mass, low Fs driver if you want to go low in style. I found none in Pro audio circles as these guys are not too interested in lowest of lows. My pick was two of these.

    One could even do a 3-way with one of these.
     
  6. Sylafari

    Sylafari Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I currently have a Schiit Bifrost Multibit (bought almost 2 years ago) so I'll probably hold off on a DAC purchase, will probably get a Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil as my next DAC in a few years, along with a tube amplifier and maybe the Focal Utopia (hopefully the price goes down in a few years, I remember when I first joined the hobby, the HD 800 was the tip of the iceberg at $1500, and now $1500 is relatively cheap compared to the new high ends everyone is selling).

    I was looking at the Adam A7X pair but Adorama had a deal for them that I missed out on, but they do have a stellar deal for the A77X, but that seems way too large for my situation.

    I have the LS50W on order and if I'm not happy with them, I'll just return them and continue looking towards other options (JBL 705P, Genelecs). I might even just end up just ending up returning the LS50W and just keeping the LSR 30X (still sounds great all these days later).

    I'm also really interested in DIY speakers and will probably buy some cheap DIY kit in the future to understand the basics.
     
  7. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    93
    is it for a 3 way or 2 way?

    if I was to build a 3 way, id look long and hard at the new Jeff bagby 3 way design
    http://www.diysoundgroup.com/maximus-12.html

    about adam a7x. I dont think they are good at all.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    http://www.diysoundgroup.com/replacement-parts/mag-12.html

    This 12" Eminence with custom specs will give you low bass in a small box. It trades a few db of efficiency (still 93.5db 1w/1m) for much better bass extension compared to the strictly pro versions of the Eminencen drivers such as the 12" / 15" Delta Pro.

    Some thoughts:
    1. Do not do the sealed box.
    2. Do not obsess over low Fs / F3 numbers.
    3. This will be great with your 10W Class A JLH amp.
    4. This works in a smallish box. You have several options and can choose the tradeoffs yourself.
    5. Again, do not obsess over low F3 numbers. Sometimes a smaller box is punchier sounding. Depends upon preferences.
    I trust Jeff Bagby. I have used many of his freely provided tools over the years.
     
  9. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    93
    lol, just suggested the maximus 12 which uses that woofer. whats awesome about that design is that it can work with low powered amps.
    so far, very few comments from users as its a new desing, but having built jeff bagby continuum, he is a very good designer and im almost tempted to build the maximus 12 design but im afraid of the horn part...
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    The way I've dealt with the Altec 511Bs was surgical digital EQ. The frequency response is far more screwy than than horn people would have you believe. I was turned off by horns for over a decade because of my experience with constant directivity horns and the unnecessary use of large 4" compression drivers. The 2" drivers are fine for home use. The multi-cell horns are also less screwy sounding. I also used some tricks like lining 1" of the exit surfaces with felt. Still, they sound like horns. Just less annoying. Think movie sound in a good theater. The good and the bad.

    In the case of the Maximus, the xover for the horn tweeter will probably be much higher because there is a B&C midrange. I would also trust Jeff Bagby to get it right considering how I've been using his Passive Crossver Designer for modelling, and it's never failed me.
     
  11. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,425
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Peoria, IL
    If the tweeter is crossed over above a certain point, does the waveglide even do much of anything?
     
  12. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    In the wind, so to speak
    Home Page:
    Not sure. Bi-amping is an option, so high efficiency for the bass drivers may not be a big deal. My room is 11.5' wide, about 10' deep, and the unmovable listening position is about 6' away from the front wall. So it's a nearfield situation for sure.

    @Marvey & @murphythecat Thx for the pointers to the the Magnum 12 and the Jeff Bagby stuff. This seems like a good option to start with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  13. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Estonia
    If you want to get away with small enclosure and watts are not numbered get a woofer with low VAS, heavy-ish cone and big ass motor, like this one.
    My gut feeling tells me (not much hands on exp with expensive sub drivers) that heavy cone and midrange would be difficult to mate in high bass-->mid transition.
    Pro woofers with light cones make better slam at mid-high bass, but imo are too high Fs in general for hi-fi use. I like that one in sims; this one is also nice, but would need too big box for my use.
    Check this out.
     
  14. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is a great option. Unless...

    Then you'll be limited to 2-ways, unfortunately. Won't be easy to do 12" and a tweeter that won't be absolutely horrible. Maybe this could work - http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-10/fusion10-pure-kit.html
     
  15. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Maybe a coaxial speaker if he's working at close range?
     
  16. PTS

    PTS Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Hooked up my new Prana Fidelity Bhava speakers today. This is probably the most money I've ever spent on a single hi-fi item, but was so blown away at the recent LA show Prana room, I had to get them.

    [​IMG]

    They sounded very good out of the box, but a bit stiff and bass light (almost the opposite to the show room) but as evening draws on they're loosening up. The highs / mids are getting sweet and the low end is appearing. Roll on 200 hours...

    Anyone have tips for quick speaker burn in? Was thinking of leaving them running overnight (every night) at low volume 10hz. They do the woofer dance at this frequency and exercising those moving parts / spider has to make the most difference? Don't want to do any damage though.
     
  17. Dino

    Dino Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I only burned in speakers once. I used the old trick of having them facing each other and having one speaker wired out of phase. Positive wire to positive terminal and negative wire to negative terminal on one speaker and the reverse on the other speaker. I could turn it up as loud as I liked and not hear much of anything when the speakers were facing each other. If I rotated one speaker away from facing each other, they sounded as loud as they really were.

    I could play them 24 hours a day and barely hear them, even in the same room. It is a neat trick.

    Edit: I neglected to mention that the speakers were about 2 inches apart when facing each other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  18. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
  19. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Likes Received:
    946
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Malta
    Marv, you had an open baffle setup not too long ago. Have you got experience with Eminence drivers in open baffle speakers?

    I am awaiting the delivery of 2 pairs of Eminence OB-A15neo for my open baffle speaker setup. The lack of a box might not impart as much low extension despite having such a surface area to drive the low frequencies.

    The speakers will be setup along a long 31 feet wall whilst room width is 10 feet. I will try my best to avoid the back wall, but the most I could do is 2 or 3.5 feet with speakers toed in. The walls are very irregular ridged surface old hard stone that should reflect the sound in different directions. Room treatment will be dictated by my other half unfortunately, i.e. minimal. That said, I hope I won't need a sub-woofer crossed at say 40Hz or digital room correction to compliment the setup but with my room (speakers close to back wall but very far side walls) everything is a toss up at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Woodwork. Neat holes; making the box strong; finishing to your desired standard, be it bare ply or french polish. Whilst that is one kind of basics, the speaker makers that I know, if not building from kit or proven designs, do a lot of maths and a lot of PC-based simulation. Followed by some trial and error and more simulation. Far too many numbers for a dyscalculiac like me :(
     

Share This Page