Nearfields for audiophile listening?

I went to my local shop again today and listened to three 3-way monitors. Here are my newbie impressions and a question:


HEDD Type 20

++ bass extension and quantity excellent
+ VERY smooth treble
- in comparison to the other two lacking some sparkle
+ coherent sound (I mean bass, mids and treble are "correctly connected")
+ spatial stuff impressive
- music did not dissolve from the speakers


Neumann KH310

- not enough bass quantity for me
+ excellent female voices (no sibilance)
+ coherent frequency response
- treble a bit too harsh for me
+ music dissolved from the speakers


Focal Trio6 Be

- bright
+ good bass quantity
- bass and treble are very present, upper mids probably too -> not a coherent sound, sounds like someting is missing
++ music sounds like at a live concert, very "big" sounding
+ music dissolves from the speakers


Music not dissolving from the speakers

I first listened to the Type 20 on stands, then we moved them on a table where the 310 was before. Still, I felt like the music was sticking somehow to the speakers. It wasn't like that with the 310 at the same place. The Focals were on stands behind that table and fine, too.

Is this a flaw of the Type 20 or rather a question of room acoustics, positioning etc. ?

 

Nice mini-review you did! As for your question, it's safe to assume that these speakers need some extra attention in order to perform the so-called vanishing act. Maybe a different position would work in their case, yet there's a chance that because of how they're built (drivers used etc.), a listener will be able to 'see' them regardless of their position. Not every speaker dissapears with the same efficiency, some do it better and some are average at best in this regard. It's just the way it is.

But yes, positioning is crucial.

 

I have a vintage Mission cyrus 781 speakers on my desk in nearfield with plenty of bass and organic highs... They completely dissapear when i completely isolate them, and damped them ..... Without that they sound good in nearfield,not astounding....And they are top of the line of Mission at the time (1990 )... We must damp all gear ,speakers included, and treat room, nothing sound to his true potential without that....I use many damping methods....In general for us ordinary mortals without big bank account, to touch audio heaven, it is important that we use some materials to treat mechanical vibration and EMI interference, in fact more important than the product we buy "per se" , supposing it is ,even at low cost,a relatively good one in the first place....

 

Due to moving countries a lot in the recent decade I've had to leave my main speakers in my home country (B&W 802, non diamond) and travel with my nearfields. The nearfields I have are pretty old now, but I do love them: Genelec 1030A. They're pretty dinged up, but except for one woofer needing some tlc last year they've been rock solid. In proper setup they sound great, but obviously lack an octave or two down low. One day I will integrate a sub, but I need to be sure I'll be staying in that location for a while.

 

I had a set of these for a while and I agree, they are a great set of speakers. I wound up selling to upsize and went back to passives, but miss the simplicity of compact actives.

 

The Genelec 8040 and 8050 are on my shortlist. I liked the 8040 a lot when I got the chance to demo them. Since you had B&W before, would you agree that the Genelecs sound similarly smooth and non-fatiguing, especially in comparison to Neumann, Focal and Dynaudio if you had a chance to listen?

Still thinking about getting a Vidar (I own Freya already) and go passive instead of active nearfield monitors for my desk. Why did you decide to go passive again?

 

My experience with studio monitors is rather limited. Back in the day, when I was more active in electronic music production, the Mackie HR824s were super popular as a budget option with good LF extension. The Genelecs were certainly smoother and less fatiguing than those. Last weekend I had a short session with some 3-way Focals (Twin6 I think it was). I didn't find them particularly fatiguing, but it was a short session.

The most fatiguing nearfields I've heard so far were some kind of Adam model. Yikes.

 

+1000
A7X are an ear drill, A7 even more

 

I'm intrigued to try the new 8331/8341. I heard the 8351 very very briefly and was super impressed.

I went passive due to unquenchable curiosity and upgrade-itis. Currently sitting with some ATC SCM20psl. Amazing mids, but sadly boxed up at the moment because I don't have the space.

 

Strange.

I only listened to A7X, but I found the upper mids / treble to be rather smooth. Smoother than Dynaudio and Focal. Same with Eve SC207 and Hedd Type 20.

So to me ribbon tweeters are actually associated with smooth and pleasing treble. I have read about harsh A7 treble before, but haven't had the chance to listen to these.

 

I've heard the A7X 3 times, and found them to sound bright and disjointed (can "hear" the AMT tweeter not blending well with the woofer), there are a lot of variables with speakers (positioning, room acoustics, etc) so who knows, but I really dislike them. A7 were even harsher.
It depends on implementation, not all ribbons/AMT/planar drivers are smooth sounding (in headphone world, HD650/600 having smoother treble than any planar, for example).
I much prefer soft dome tweeters if the speaker has a woofer, it just blends better to my taste if properly done. I'll take Dynaudio BM5 MK2 over Adam A7X and A7, but that's my opinion.
Did not heard Eve and Hedd, so can't comment. Hedd & Eve founders worked for Adam before, and before Adam, they worked for Elac. Maybe they can start a new company and name it "Kain und Abel Lautsprecher" (nothing against them, just an observation with some black humour).
Very different story is a well implemented full range ribbon/planar speaker, like a restored pair of Apogees, but those do not fit on a desk

 

No, they don't

 

We need bigger desks

 

I cannot say anything about the not blending well / disjointed issue. That may actually be the case and I just didn't recognize it.

Maybe I am using some technical terms in the wrong way as well and sometimes I can't tell if it's the upper mids or the treble that is harsh - or both.

I can only say that I prefer smooth upper mids / treble (i.e. not harsh) and a neutral or dark sound (i. e. not overly bright). Having heard A7X and 8040 in one room I liked both but didn't like the Dynaudio and Unity Audios. In the other room I liked Eve SC207 and Hedd Type 20 but didn't like the Focals. With Neumann KH120 I noticed that the upper mids / treble were harsher in one room than the other, but that was the only speaker I heard in both rooms.

To me it seems quite hard to find the right balance between smooth upper mids / treble and still have some sparkle left. The same goes for the bass - I want bass (more than KH310), but it has to be controlled and precise.

Right now the Hedd Type 20 are still on my shortlist, but I need to demo them against Genelec 8050, which I haven't heard yet. I'd prefer 3-way, but those Genelecs have DSP which I don't need and want.

 

Would be nice to say a bit about what you liked and didnt like about each (dynaudio/unity audio/etc) just like your post on Monday.. would give people like me a glimpse of how the other speakers sound overall compared to the others

also, check out soundgym - helped me a bit identify frequencies and what not

 

I have the same sonic preferences (detailed but smooth and good bass but tight) I value coherency and neutrality without being sterile over everything else.
But, seems that we have different hearing or maybe the different setup and acoustics are making one speaker sound bright to me and warm for you, who knows, that's the bad thing with speakers, headphones are not affected by acoustics.

Btw, you may want to try the ATC SCM20ASL PRO MK2, they're expensive but active analog crossover, class a/b amps, sealed cabinet and propietary drivers and no dsp...it is the best two way speaker I've heard.

Oh, I enjoyed very much reading your impressions above, please keep going and good luck with your search

 

@econaut Maybe put Quested on your list. I've tried Focal(solo) and Genelec(8040) and Quested(s7r)is by far the smoothest and organic. Bass is tight as well but you might need a sub, i use one as well. If i had to buy now i'd go for the s8r or v2108.

 

I did this here in this thread. Again very sophisticated

Thanks for encouraging me. It's sometimes a little challenge to write since I don't have trained ears. Concerning the ATC I think it doesn't have the bass extension I am looking for. Since I plan without a sub as a start, I want the bass to go down to about 35 Hz.

In the link above I describe what I think about the older Quested S8. Dark/warm, but way too muffled for me, didn't sound very alive. If they went from there and added some sparkle with the newer models, this might be interesting.

Right now I have Klipsch RB81 on monitor stands behind my desk and I am actually quite happy except for the lack of bass after using Dirac Room Correction (which makes quite a huge difference even in nearfield).

Actually I am thinking about getting the LSR305 for 30 days just to get more listening experience. Never heard them.

EDIT: Just ordered the LSR305. I hope it's already a step up from the Klipschs. ^^

 

The only way you're getting decent 35Hz on a standmount is going 3-way. Which will cost you. The best I've heard Genelec 8260, which go for circa 5k used.

 

My limit is 4000 Euros. Looking at the 8260 I would pay for all that SAM-stuff that I don't need because I am using Dirac already and I am afraid DSP will ruin the Gungnir Multibit multibit sound.

Looking at "3-way" the other way around:

Maybe getting 8040/8050s now and adding a sub like Genelec 7360A later will be my "3-way" solution. Connecting the monitors to the sub will apply a 85 Hz high pass filter thus unloading the monitor woofers of the lower bass frequencies.