Schiit Ragnarok - aka raggy

Hilarious to hear about the 400xi's showstopping farty bass and great to know the "inside story," as I always wanted to believe the Rag would be better for the HE-6 than it sometime came across on that labyrinthine, highly bewildering thread. To be fair, comments on the Rag ranged from positive to lukewarm from Armaegis, Lojay, Jason, and Negura, so it was unfair for me to vaguely refer to its reception as being "less than ideal." And, as you point out, the entire headphone chain, mods applied, sonic preferences, and other setups with which the Rag is being compared make a world of difference here. It sounds like the Rag is capable of powering the HE-6 authoritatively.

I was actually thinking mostly of Negura's comments on the Rag/HE-6 pairing when I mentioned that thread--not just any "rando"--but he was comparing it to his bigger, more expensive amp whose exact model escapes me (possibly one of the Xindaks).

At one point, I was looking into the 400xi as a solution for myself at one point. This is why it pays to visit SBAF. I will scratch that one off as well.

Was the Belkin a PF60?

 

Did you run the he6 through the speaker taps or the balanced headphone out?

 

Ahh ok, when you mentioned resistors I thought you might of used them with the taps

 

I'm a certified HE-6 nut, and even I think Jason and those other guys are drinking the koolaid sometimes. I've scaled down to my Bryston 2B-LP and have been perfectly happy with it. Yeah I've heard amps that were marginally better, but I also like having desk space, don't need a space heater, and enjoy the freedom of being able to move my rig around without a forklift. I actually have the larger 3B and 4B amps, but sonically prefer the 2B.

 

I've been using The Rok ever since it came out.

With just a minor amount of tweaking, I'm getting TOOBZ euphonics and micro-detail, out of SS.

It has bass with power, definition and nuance to below 10Hz.
Right now the cannon shots on the 1812 from the telearc CD have concussive impact with authority.

I see no reason to part with it.

JJ

 

How would you rate the rag with the modded HD650's? Source being either Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil, haven't decided yet.

 

I am also interested to know how raggy works with dynamics like the HD650 and HD800. I've liked these best when heard through tube amps, but if the amp is as resolute as its made out to be, it could be a great pairing. In my experience these cans scale and can reproduce as much fine detail as you throw at them.

 

If modded HD800, it would possibly be good. Stock HD800 was not pleasant.

 

It works well, but I tend to do most of my headphone listening with my torpedo nowadays (mainly TH-X00, HD800S, and HD 650). I thought the HD800S seemed to pair particularly well with it.

 

I have lived with the HD800 paired with the Yggdrasil+Rag since September using balanced cables. Great sounding on pristine recordings but painful on others, and I listen almost exclusively to classical genres. In the end I didn't bother to mod it and ended up listening to my speakers fed by the Yggdrasil and the Rag after a while.

With my Monitor Audio GX100 speakers the Rag & Yggdrasil combo is such a step up in clarity, neutrality, resolution, staging and dynamism compared to the Musical Fidelity M6i integrated amp that is now in storage.

I have had the HD800S from January and it is a real treat on the same system. I can wear the HD800S all day with no fatigue at all!

The pristine Suzuki Bach cantata cycle still sounds awesome and my ear-piercing recordings, such as Klemperer's Beethoven Missa Solemnis I could only listen to on speakers, are now very enjoyable. Detail, headstage, imaging, dynamism - at times the speed of the driver is astounding. As I listened to Bach's St Matthew's Passion conducted by Herreweghe I was at times gripped by the sudden jolts of the chorus that came out of nothing.

Currently listening sessions are a toss-up, depending on my mood - speakers or HD800S. The Rag is fantastic on both.

When I listen for extended sessions to my speakers, moving to HD800S is a pleasure with one flaw - recessed mids which I have now grown to love after several attempts at equalisation. I might move to tubes and better higher efficiency speakers at some point but I haven't found a modestly priced tube amp that can easily drive speakers and headphones with the same authority as the Rag.

 

Hi my name is Josh and I have an audio gear addiction problem...

...so I bought a raggy.

Wanted to try it out for headphones and planned on replacing my Rotel integrated amp on my 2 channel system anyway. I bought used, so I told myself that I could sell it quickly for about what I paid, but that was just conniving josh doing his thing to rational josh.

Does this amp need warm-up time? Its used so its broken in, but didnt know if people thought it sounded better if left on for an hour or so before listening.

Very quick physical impressions:
This does sound like a old timey typewriter while adjusting volume. I was playing music, didn't bother me.

Sound impressions:


More to come...

 

Ok - long form update now that I've had this thing for about a week. Take all my impressions for what they are - only been into headphones for about a year, but in the last year I've owned a PS Audio Sprout -> Fiio X3 Fiio E12A -> Bottle Head Crack + SB -> Schiit Lyr 2 -> Vali 2 and now the raggy. All evaluations of raggy have been through Gungnir Multibit + MC1.2 converter + modded HD650's, modded HD800's and ZMF Blackwoods.

I will start with the things I didn't like as much about the amp (spoiler, I'm nit picking):

• Physical size - its the size of an integrated amp (that's because it is) and while I have it on my desk next to my computer right now, its eating up a ton of real estate
• Clicky sounds on volume change - i guess this is a negative, but doesn't bother me in the least, just havn't ever heard any other amp do it before
• Runs a bit warm - again, doesn't bother me - but I know some people use their stuff in small spaces and didn't like the heat output of the Gungnir Multibit. This runs much much warmer.
• Power switch in the back - cool for headphone amps, not as cool for integrated amps where rear access isn't a given
• Sounds much better through balanced 4 pin xlr output than with 1/4" single ended jack: This might be my only actual complaint - have to buy new cables for my headphones to get the best sound. (small thing I liked: being able to play two sets of headphones at the same time, one balanced and one single ended. Gives me a chance to show my kids what I am listening to)

Now that I found something wrong with it let get to the good stuff, the sound:

• What I immediately noticed was the power and attack. Everything was snappier, crisper, very forward and bass was tight like a tiger. I haven't heard this before and it really adds alot the music. Kind of reminded my of my Lyr 2 with the LISST tubes, but 1000x moar better-er in all aspects.
• Resolution, clarity, transparent, natural, nuanced detail are terms I've heard for this amp before I purchased and its very very accurate. I've never heard anything reproduce this level of clarity and sound like it wasn't going to break a sweat. But a caveat - it sounds better than my other amps, but not super different. My Vali can reproduce 75% of the detail but falls short in the natural and transparent aspects. I've come to the conclusion that the source (DAC's, TT's, etc) are where most of the clarity come from, amps just reproduce that signal (some would even say amplify) to the best of their ability and add a bit of color here or there. Better amps add less, worse amps sound grainy, muddy, or shouty. Raggy lets everything through. I noticed blacker blacks, the music seemed to rise up and disappear quickly.
• Really liked the separation of the instruments - I think my bottlehead crack, lyr 2, and vali 2 all were holding back the Gungnir Multibit. I now think the Gungnir Multibit is holding back the raggy, but not by much. Lots of space - sound stage moved forward and widened significantly.
• I certainly wouldn't call this amp warm, but I wouldn't call it dry. Warm wet to me means a bottlehead crack and dry means a solid state amp that adds nothing (aka the wire with gain). This is somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't normally this of the word "lush" when describing a solid state amp without it sounding warm like BW. But this might be lush, just not as lush as a tube amp.
• Dynamics like the 650 and 800 were great, but I am enjoying how my ZMF scaled up to this amp. These planars have never sounded better. While some amps pair well with some cans, I have a feeling I am going to get alot out of each can I try on this. Maybe not 100% like a specialized amp, but 90% on a wider variety.

Still need to try out with speakers, kinda lazy and this has been living on my desktop. I have some old B&W CDM2 SE bookshelfs I was going to experiment with. Long term goal is to try these out with KEF LS50's.

Overall this is the first over $1,000 amp I've owned but I am thoroughly impressed. I am under utilizing it as strictly a headphone amp at the moment, but really like the options it gives me to go explore speaker world. BW may sounds better as a HF amp in this price range, but raggy is more flexible. Fin.

 

The Ragnarok (+ Yggdrasil / wyrd fully balanced) is fantastic on my speakers.



My Monitor Audio GX100 were run by the 200Wpc Musical Fidelity m6i integrated amp and the presentation was good but very lush, laid back and warm. Bass was pronounced, one note and the treble was quite sharp at times. I got used to the presentation for a few years. After I got the Ragnarok I hooked it up to Musical FIdelity internal DAC that is the VDAC 2. The result was good with a more neutral balance but the stage was kind of weirdly all over the place. The ribbon tweeters reproduced treble that was quite off and uncomfortable at times. The bass was detailed but less pronounced, the mids were way better than the m6i hinting at its inherent potential. I enjoyed the Rag whilst waiting for the Yggdrasil that took for ever to be shipped last summer. I was considering changing speakers at the time as they sounded too bright without the warm m6i in place. Luckily I waited for the Yggdrasil...

The GX100 are 8ohm rated at 88db (1W/1m). The impedance does not go down below 6 ohm throughout the frequency range - lucky for me! The amp power recommendation is 60-120W. I would highly recommend to check the speaker specifications before buying any in order to make sure that the Rag can deliver. If the ohm drops to <4 ohm at some point it will cause trouble and the sound would deteriorate as the internal microprocessor kicks in to protect the internal function of the amp.

The Rag will faithfully give you what is fed to it. The VDAC2's rubbish got through up to that point with sibilant treble, and extremely wide and all over the place soundstage. As soon as I hooked up the Yggdrasil back in September it all fell into place. It was a night and day difference. The details brought up by the speakers were astounding. The Yggdrasil's magic was now in place. (I should also mention that at the same time I changed to Mogami 3104 Deluxe cryotreated speaker cables that could have impacted on the sound.)

The Yggdrasil and Rag combo made the sound coherent, balanced, neutral with no emphasis at the extremes. Bass was very detailed, each note on the cello was almost made up of mini-notes when listening to Jordi Savall on Bach cello suites or on his beautiful album 'Le Voix humaine'. The Viola da Gamba rendition by Savall was and still is breathtaking. I heared every nuance of the instrument in its bass and mid region with realistic timbre almost as good as the real thing. The Yggdrasil-Rok has an ultra-detailed resolution whereby I can hear Savall breathing during the tracks, the chair creaking as he touches the instrument. I can feel the bow touching the strings and the space between the notes is not empty but filled in with so much more. It is enlightening and still freaks me out at times.

Voices are not recessed and the mids are smooth with excellent transition from the bass region up to the treble. Wagner's 'The Ring' cycle conducted by Solti sounds amazing with male and female voices mixing very well with the instrumentation. It has clear separation of the instruments with pin-point imaging as can be heard in Siegfried's Funeral March.

Beethoven Missa Solemnis conducted by Klemperer, my go to difficult to render recording having so many voices and treble energy, sounded great once the speakers were towed in half-way but not facing directly at me. Bruckner symphonies are loaded with brass and strings. Unlike the HD800S, at no point do the lower mids (brass, winds) overcome the higher strings. Cymbals are faithfully reproduced and extend up into the air like it should be.

Violins, violas and double bass on Bach Goldberg variation album that I listened to live sounds like the real thing (unlike the HD800S with recessed mids).The screeching violins of Crumb's 'Black Angels' are rendered with no hint of sibilance or harshness, and if there is a piece that would sound sibilant - this is it.

The soundstage is impressive, with instrument that are placed further back to the speakers and filling out the front room. The stage is not high (probably the due to the ribbons having limited vertical dispertion) and not too deep - feels like being on the 6th row of a 20 row avenue, my go to place for live concerts. Staging is more natural and not as wide and artificial as the VDAC2. Mozart's wonderful operas 'Le Nozze di Figaro' (by Davis and E. Kleiber) and 'Cosi Fan Tutte' (conducted by Davis and Bohm) are staged in front of you. A knock on the door on the right is soon followed by Figaro walking in front of you from one side to the other. The arias on this marvel of an opera are beautifully rendered. The wonderful macro and micro dynamics make the stage more natural and refined. The dynamics can go from the finest pianisso to forte fortisimo on Wagner Ring, Bruckner symphony or Bach's St Matthew's Passion with great intensity and punch. Just yesterday I was a wreak whilst listening to the Bach's Mass in B Minor and St Matthew's Passion conducted by Herreweghe. It was an emotional rollercoaster whereby these two Bach's masterpiece sounded so much alive in my system. Everything was in its right place for the music to take over and so it did.


At present I think that the speakers are the limiting factor to improve on my system. The GX100 were likened to the KEF LS50s with a bit more bass and refined treble due to the larger driver and ribbon tweeter. The imaging and mids on the LS50 may be better produced due to its construction but the bass might not be as pronounced as it rolls off earlier. The GX100 does roll off from 50Hz or so and a subwoofer may help in that regard, but bookshelf speakers will always have this issue. Since I listen to classical music for most of my time, I find the bass to be enough except possibly for organ music when the HD800S reproduces the lower end better.

The alternate rock, rock, 60s (Beatles, Bob Dylan, Rolling Stones), 70s (Led Zeppelin, Bowie), 80s (REM, Joy Division), 90s-00s (Radiohead, Sigur Ros, Portis Head, National, Bon Iver, Arcade Fire, ) albums I have sound splendid on the Rag. I had to hear all REM's albums just to relisten to them in a whole new way. Everybody Hurts' hurts to listen to in a good way. I heard this track so many times but never this way. The vocals on Portis Head 'The Rip' is astonishing and the Rag delivered again. Bob Dylan's albums such as 'Blonde on Blonde' had smooth vocals (despite Dylan, I know!), harmonica and cymbals were rendered smoothly with precision as never before and there was so much detail even in simple tracks like 'Visions of Johanna', a favourite of mine.

Sigur Ros was mind blowing, listening to Hoppipolla was such a joy. The piano mixed well with the rest of the instrument and Jonsi's child-like voice was rendered as much as when I heard him live. Same goes for another favourite Sigur Ros' Njosnavelin (The Nothing Song) with deep bass extending into the bowed guitar mids to the treble sky. Bon Iver's lovely Holocene had hypnotic acquistic guitar strings that were magnificent and Calgary was beautifully rendered.

I had to relisten to all of Radiohead, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon, Bowie, and countless other albums despite my current obsession with classical music. I relived all those times I was into more contemporary music and it was sublime.

I recently listened to Radiohead's new album 'A Moon Shaped Pool' and it sounded terrific on Yggdrasil + Rag + GX100 / HD800S. The closing track 'True Love Waits' literally made me cry! With all the inherent excellent qualities of the Rag I described, with this album and others whereby low bass is important, I would have wanted a tad more bass at times when driving the speakers. This is something to consider if EDM / alt rock is your thing (as it was few years ago for me). In such a case a subwoofer would probably complement bookshelf speakers better, hopefully without altering the imaging and resolution. In this case the m6i with its 200Wpc power and warmer presentation does produce more pronounced but less articulate bass at the expense of everything else.

So I could describe the Rag as neutral mid-centric amp that is mildly bass light but extremely resolving and natural to the music faithfully producing its source output onto the GX100 speakers. Changing to higher efficiency and bigger speakers would bring more bass boost hopefully without sacrificing the rest of the Rag's achievements.

Please note that I do not have a lot of experience with other amps / speakers / headphones as I just go for the perceived best and stay put for few years (kind of). However I have many reference classical recordings to voice my system with as well as relying on live classical concerts to equalise my hearing to the real thing. At present I am thinking about the Omega Super Alnico Monitor speakers as future upgrade as they are more efficient, should image better and being one driver have no crossover issues. I will probably get hold of the highly regarded HD650 and almost certainly the recently announced CFA Andromeda at some point and test these on my system.

However I am still so happy with my current speaker setup that I couldn't care less about upgrades.

Yep, Yggdrasil + Rag + Speakers (that have no weird impedance specs) is truly glorious to my ears.

 

Question...

The ROK/HD800 combo seems to be very polarizing. Some people say its an amazing combo, some people don't like it at all. I don't think Ive ever seen such wild division with an amp before.

Is there some inherent bias going on (in either direction)? Any level headed folks who've heard this combo able to chime in? Why so much discrepancy.

 

800's like some other TotL headphones are going to let you know what the signal that is fed them will sound like.
The amp is only part of the chain.
So is the dac, and the cables etc, etc.

When you reach this level of exactitude and precision there is no 'hiding' from a variety of influences, some of which may not be 'Better' while others certainly will be.

My Rok driving my 800's is marvelous.
Could it be better?
I suppose so, but at what cost?
And I don't just mean $$$, but added complications, complexity, stability thru time (as the amp ages) etc.

I suspect that most folks objections to The Rok stems from the rest of the system and how well all of it works together, rather than just the mating of the amp to 800's alone.

As with most bleeding edge gear, certain idiosyncratic aspects are just part of the deal.
IOW when playing in the top 1% everything starts to matter, and dealing with these foibles is all part of the 'fun'.
At least that's how I see it.

JJ

 

This looks like a great/unique amp... any videos showing the relay volume control clicking? Tempting if they just add remote control! How is the knob feel... since it looks like just a rotary encoder vs. the nice alps blue velvet in most of their other stuff. Thanks!

 

The MOAR knob is not an encoder but a switch that controls relays that make discrete 1.2dB changes to the signal amplitude.
These relays are what makes the clicking sound.
And they use 10% or 5% (I forget which) precision resistors which provides much closer channel matching than an analog pot will.

A remote is not offered, as this amp is primarily a headphone amp and can also drive speakers.
But I see it as mostly an amp for nearfield use, so a remote is superfluous.

JJ

 

I have only tried a modded HD800 with my raggy, feel like its a great match, but can see where a stock hd800 would be too much. 90% of neutral and highly resolving amps aren't a great match with stock HD800 due to 6k peaky ice pick in the ear. HD800 is great at resolution, speed, and soundstage, and the Ragnarok is great at these things too.