Is it me or is the general public becoming dumber and more divided?

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by GettingBuckets, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. KurtSvensson

    KurtSvensson Friend

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    The pessimist says
    "Now it surely can't get any worse than this"

    The optimist replies "Hell yeah it can!"
     
  2. New Reformation

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    Having recently completed a read through Brave New World I am astounded more than ever by the slip of society. The direction of society ultimately reflects the ever more corrupt worldview of the populace. I feel like if my generation had the choice to indulge in Soma (a fictional drug that has no side-effects), consequence-free illicit relationships and recreational distractions at the expense of personal freedom, they would not raise their hands in objection, rather they would present their hands for the shackles. George Washington said it this way, " Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society." Before you cast me into the mindless oblivion of rejected "religious nuts", consider the application. If there is no deeper meaning to life than what feels good, than society will crumble into a nightmare. Why work when you can get government support? Why get married and have children? It's way to expensive and inconvenient. Why should you learn to think clearly and express yourself cogently? Comments on youtube and Facebook only get "likes" when they fall in line.

    I have my answers for these questions, and it comes from my belief in the God of the Bible. But for the upcoming generation, there is a mindless, selfish naivety that sets them up to be willing slaves. And the worst part is that they won't necessarily dislike their slavery. They will have everything that they wanted... not knowing all that they have forsaken and the deeper meaning that life takes on when you live for something beyond pleasure and comfort.
     
  3. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    I grew up in a Protestant family with the Bible. Among the religious people I knew there were also idiots. Knowing your roots helps you in making certain choices and for me that meant leaving religion, leaving the Sunday herd. For some people religions works, for some people it does not.

    I agree with your comment regarding "Brave New World." There are so many people who these days accept convenience over what really makes them happy that I sometimes wonder what comes next. The power of certain corporations and media channels is dangerous. For me all that matters is to remain critical and sceptical while staying pragmatic. I foresee a nightmare regarding privacy, intellectual property legislation and unbiased science if certain things do not change.

    The next generation, including people my age (27) face many challenges in the future. Stupidity is not an excuse...
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You guys are all set in Europe regarding privacy, unlike in the USA. In Europe, it's all spelled out exactly in law what governments and corporations can and cannot do to get personal information. :D
     
  5. RAZRr1275

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    I think you're conflating objective and subjective meaning. There can be no objective meaning to life but a subjective one that an individual creates that keeps them going. In terms of why people do things without religion or morality the answer is simple -- because they want to. I'm not saying people 100% make their own decisions because they absolutely don't. Social/environmental factors are obviously huge in shaping the way that people think. But all of this exists outside of, or at least is intertwined with discussions of religion and morality. So to answer your question directly, the reason my generation would not just be content with doing nothing is 1) Because people don't want to do that 2) A nonreligious or loosely religious Millennial has just as much ability to create meaning in their lives as anyone else and 3) Throwing your hands up in the air and conceding is pretty far outside of most social norms that exist. I'm quite sure people in my generation would kill for jobs if the market was actually good and would actually get married and have kids if the environment was actually conducive to doing so. Stability doesn't exactly exist to a great extent for people coming into the job market now and if you don't have stable employment you probably shouldn't be having children. I also wouldn't consider youtube and facebook posts as being indicative of my generation's ability to think critically. Both of those arenas have very specific audiences that tend to think very specific ways and are considered cesspools by people representing both ideologies. Last, in terms of your whole idea of complacency, I couldn't disagree more -- if there's anything my generation is good at it's coming up with things that the current social order does wrong. If anything I'd say that we're horrible at being content even if we do have everything. Sure, some of us are thankful for what we have and our happy with our own lives, but that doesn't mean that we don't want more for ourselves and others.
     
  6. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Lobbies and political interests still exist. Legislation is great, ratification and enforcement matter. Brussels is not completely trustworthy...
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I was using literal irony hence the smiley. Having laws spelled out on how government and corporations can access personal information is not necessarily a good thing. It means there is a lawful procedure to do so. When there is a procedure to do so, then privacy has essentially been lost. A European citizen has no legal recourse to say the government violated their privacy if the government wished to.
     
  8. New Reformation

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    The same principle comes into play with "Net-Neutrality". The pitch might sound good, but look at the consequences in terms of broadening legislative power. I was recently talking with someone who grew up in a country that uses the parliamentary system. It was interesting to tell him about how the separation of powers INTENTIONALLY limit governmental efficiency, and how that can be a good thing.
     
  9. Thomas Crown

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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah, I got mixed up with the Sun rotating around the Earth thing.
     
  11. aufmerksam

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    Further OT: It still took them 350 years to admit they were wrong about helio- vs geocentricity.

    edit: damn it.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Institutions and forms of government usually arise based on a nation's and people's needs. When we think about it, the founding fathers of the USA did quite a remarkable job, not only forming a government that worked for that time, but also one that would work effectively two hundred some years later. The country is obviously very different now compared to two hundred some years ago, and the Constitution is certainly very different from what it was originally, but the basic foundation remains the same. It's by no means perfect, in fact it's quite a horrible system, but at least we never had to worry about less capable successors to benevolent dictators, evil dictators, or going from one republic / constitution to another. The next two hundred years will be interesting. I think the question of the extent of federal power has already been answered. Up next will be the place of religion in government (the irony being the huge role how religion influenced the laws of this land - there's a reason why our legal system works a lot better than Red China's) and the extent of power of the executive and judicial branches.
     
  13. Thomas Crown

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    I don't care advocating the Catholic church but according to wiki it took them 120 years, you are referring to the judgement against Galileo:

    "In 1758 the Catholic Church dropped the general prohibition of books advocating heliocentrism from the Index of Forbidden Books.[70] It did not, however, explicitly rescind the decisions issued by the Inquisition in its judgement of 1633 against Galileo."
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You are strong in the ways of the Wiki.
     
  15. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Who is your master? Your Nerd-Fu is effective.
     
  16. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    The Greeks already figured out the earth had to be round-ish. What remained was to figure out how our galaxy worked and was put together. Rome kept most of its flock stupid to keep them dependent of "if the Pope says no, no heaven for you!" Makes you think about Seinfeld and the "soup nazi" and then Elaine finds the recipe book.

    Makes you think...
     
  17. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    Yeah I was more focusing on the ultimate apology and public admittance that they were actually wrong for persecuting him, which happened in the early 90's. I remember this as I grew up catholic, and at the time thought to myself "seriously? you still hadn't apologized for that?"
     
  18. robot zombie

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    Anti-intellectualism runs strong in this country. Having to constantly consider the possibility that you might be wrong doesn't come easily. Many would rather live in a purgatory of cognitive dissonance where they see only what they want to see. Imagine that your worldview has largely been fixed for most of your life. Now something comes up that threatens to take it all down. For someone who hasn't been in the habit of challenging their own worldview, or simply hasn't had the experience of having it challenged externally, that's not going to be easy.

    It's easier to ignore the details than it is to examine them all and rebuild your perspective bit by bit. A lot of people, rather than examine the issues more closely, choose to instead seek positive affirmation of whatever belief makes them feel good. When you go too long without being challenged and have the privilege of removing yourself from the equation, perception becomes reality. Anything that challenges that perception becomes cause for a full-blown identity crisis. "If that is true, then where does this leave me? No, it can't be true, because I am me!" And with that, the discussion is over. The walls go shooting up.

    It really doesn't help that the news frames everything as a debate. They make it seem like there are different sides of the truth to be on... ...as if reality changes based on how you feel. And people play right into it, siding with whatever gut-feeling argument most resonates with them. People aren't interested in being informed. Everyone thinks they understand the world better than everyone else. Everyone wants to understand where their place in the world is. Some cope with this hardwired desire better than others, but none of us are all that smart... ...some are just more patient and perhaps a little more honest with themselves. Others aren't so content with the idea of simply not knowing things - they can't accept that they simply do not understand the issue and don't know how to start asking themselves why they believe what they do.

    People these days don't know how good they have it. Society has its ills. As a whole, we all suffer in one way or another. I can recognize that I do and I can sense it in everybody that I meet. We have some serious problems. But I think most live comfortably, in a historic sense. Without any real conflict in our day to day, we incite our own. Some people aren't content to simply relax and enjoy their cushy lives. *shrugs* Somehow, the world seems to be going to shit, but life goes on. Seems like we're always on the edge of a collapse, doesn't it? Behind that sense of precariousness is a worldview that's been shattered. It just doesn't make sense anymore. It takes time for people to adapt to new ideas. Generation by generation, we'll get to the next step, whatever that may be. It's simply "out with the old, in with the new."

    I think we've always been dumb. Smart for animals, sure, but easily compromised, emotionally. As our ability to communicate broadens, it simply becomes more apparent. With that comes new problems... ...problems that will take a long time to sort out. It's insanity. The rate at which ideas can now take hold is like nothing the world has ever seen. It is now easier to survive, but because of that, things are a lot harder to make sense of. There is a hidden danger in having too much time to think. It's good to have some engrossing hobbies. Gone are the simple times of yore. When everybody suddenly realizes that they have a voice, things get messy and lines between majorities start to blur.

    It really is an interesting time to be alive. We're having exchanges that have never been possible before. Our windows to the world are broader than ever and with that increased flow of information and ideas comes a lot of static. It can be scary, daunting and confusing. What I think we now have to do is reassess how we gather and convey information under the new paradigm. We have to take a closer look at how we talk to each other on a meta level, both as a society and as individuals. There are many faux pas to be sorted out. A new way of thinking, one separate from individual ideals, has to take hold. We all need to get better at having the pertinent conversations. We already have the means. We just have to learn to use them better and maybe try to be a little less selfish for our own sakes.

    The question is, how much can we take before the script flips? Not much more, I think. A generational shift is already upon us. People being born into this world now will likely see things quite differently from the generations before them. It's no longer a linear progression. Maybe it never has been.

    I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. Why did I come to this thread? Right, why is everybody so stupid... ...hell if I know! A fool doesn't know himself to be a fool.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    On the other hand, this site is very much anti-intellectual and run by curmudgeons.

    You can also argue that the whole intellectualism thing breeds a certain smugness, e.g. "Conservative people like your father-in-law who live in Coldwater county in Michigan are dumb hicks", "Christians are stupid and retarded", "Mormons are cultists", Al Gore's condescending sighs at GWB during the 2000 debates. I've noticed that often the folks talking down Christians and people like my father-in-law tend to be at lot less successful in life (in terms of happiness and/or wealth). BTW, I am not Christian nor I am a "conservative".

    "I'm so smart, and why are other people so dumb?" is a very dangerous path to tread.
     
  20. robot zombie

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    Haha, true enough. Hardcore intellectuals are no better. Two sides of the same coin. That was the point, really. It's oh so human to think you know things. Doesn't really matter what corner you seclude yourself in. When you start operating under that pretense of superiority, it sets you up to be mislead. You stop looking at yourself critically and that sets you up for alienating others and isolating yourself from things happening in the world. The truth is likely somewhere between "us" and "them."

    One thing I have learned very well in my short life: beware of ideologues of all types. That's where the self-deluded like to be. Never trust someone who's in the business of making enemies. You may not consider them your enemy, but the same cannot necessarily be said for them. They're not people you want to be "in" with, even is you do seem to align. One must be careful not to overfeed one's ego. You do your thing. Let other people worry about their things.

    I am not religious. I have met many athiests who like to bash Christians. Hop over to the atheist side of youtube and taste the vitrol. They sound just like evangelists to me. Me, I don't really care either way. I come from a Christian upbringing. My parents are devout Christians. They know that I am not, and somehow they still love me. I love them, too. And life goes on just fine in this family. We continue to stick together and support one another. There are certain conversations we just don't have out of respect. We instead look at what's best for all of us.

    Point is, there are far more important things than what people believe is right and good. When you start making caricatures of other people, you become one yourself. It is important to separate what you think is right for you from what is right for others. A lot of people don't seem to be willing to do that, for whatever reason. And I don't think it has to do with intelligence. Highly intelligent people are no less likely to fall into the same trap.

    In all things, there must be a balance. Sometimes, it pays to have a willingness to take a wide range of people seriously. "Why is everyone so stupid? said everyone on earth. If we could just take a step beyond such notions, then maybe, just maybe, we'd all be a little happier.

    Quite often, I look at the world with all of its problems and think that if we could only unite, we'd actually get somewhere. The whole "us against them" mentality gets to be nauseating after a while. It never ends.
     

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