Focal Elear and Utopia

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by SingSing, Jun 14, 2016.

  1. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Maybe so, but Schiit may be more Hortensio in this tale...

    And is it at all crazy to want an expensive tube amp to drive these two "affordable" transducers? How many time have people purchased an HD800 then spend pennies on the dollar for an amp, only to be left with a mediocre experience? $1600 flushed down the toilet...
     
  2. cizx

    cizx Friend

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    No, not crazy to want it... the prevailing opinion is to consider the amp and phones as a pair when looking for something. Synergy is important.

    Problems come in when deviating from that pair. One amp might not rule them all.
     
  3. Lightbulb Sun

    Lightbulb Sun Friend

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    I find the Elear can complement the modded HD650; they both have slam, authority, and resolution even out of the Mojo2 with 6BZ7. Particularly if your musical tastes wander, there are great pairings for both.
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Stock, it's fine with about anything that isn't too harsh or forward, like a lot of modern rock and metal. I think with easy mods it'll be good with about anything. I suppose anything too bass heavy already might not sound great either way.
     
  5. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    LOL. I've had the same experience with Chevelle which I love on Sirius driving home from work but tears my head off at home. They have a whole album of remastered versions of songs that were only a few years old at the time. Seems like someone screwed the pooch.
     
  6. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Quit buying gear that reveals the source and start masking the horrible quality of your favorites! And it's not hard to make or obtain a vinyl rip of any notable artist. I doubt that MCR had Analogue Productions do their vinyl mastering. Either way, not hard to find out if it's better or not.
    Buy a solid bassy veiled fun Bluetooth speaker and use it for your "car stereo" music.
     
  7. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    And ye opened the 6th sign an Flea was playing in your head while wearing the Elear...

    Seriously, Red Hot Chili Peppers and the Elear do not belong in the same room as each other. Maybe some of @Hands 's pad rolling might fix it. What pads are you trying?
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    For those of you not feeling adventurous, measurements and some early pad swapping results here. Scroll down a couple posts for everything.
     
  9. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Day 3 thoughts on Elear, may post a small comparo to other well-known heavy hitters later. Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir2 LISST and Russian Premiums, XLR out

    Bad:
    - Particularly loud and sustained notes in upper midrange, like a guitar solo or emphasized vocal section, suddenly becomes very grating and it really sticks out. This may be similar or the same thing as the "shoutiness" mentioned by others. This is a fairly big issue for me, every other negative observation is much more minor. Natalie Merchant belting out beautiful notes is a painfully good example

    Meh:
    -Bass can sound disconnected from midrange, and often take attention away from midrange. There's the bass AND there's the midrange, very distinct
    -Soundstage narrow, like a good closed can but no isolation. Small helmet-orb around your head. Not much of a feeling of "air" and openess, imaging within helmet-orb good tho
    -All good cable jokes are taken, so I'll thank @Tyll Hertsens for writing the article on the connectors that allowed me to make one ahead of time

    Good:
    -Very full bass, emphasized fairly low giving a lush rumble sensation, which I prefer, instead of a bouncier midbass emphasized feeling
    -Laid back treble, welcome considering my other quite bright cans. I can hear some peakiness but none of it bothers me like the upper midrange "grate".
    -Dynamic and involving, easy to get into the music. However it is hard to settle on a volume within the same album, I've learned to start tuning to the bass instead the guitars/vocals in the mids.
    -Heavy in the hand but not on the head, like an M&M. Weight distributed well, soft deep pads and just right clamp
    -Great for non-competitve gaming, full bass with non-fatiguing treble leads to immersion. Midrange "grate" not an issue with explosions, sfx, backing music, dialogue...etc. found in games
    -Is this CA Jupiter in open back form? Maybe... more at 11 (Edit: Not quite)

    Overall I like it, an enjoyable listen, but unsure exactly how much. Will be interesting to see how head-time distributes between these and my other opens in longterm (HE-6, AD2000, HD-800...etc) but seriously the HD800+SD still reigns supreme
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  10. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    Are there two different variants of the Elear going around? I hear no upper-midrange shout on mine, and I'm the kind of guy who absolutely can't stand a 2khz emphasis (LCD-XC, RE-400, PM-3 as examples.)
     
  11. Tuck16

    Tuck16 New

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    I recently got to try out the Elear for a few days. As much as I wanted to like it, I couldn't. For the past two years, I have used only an HD600 and an LCD 2.2f. Coming from those, I found the Elear to have an impactfull strong bass and an engaging presentation.

    My biggest problem with the Elear was the "pressure" I felt on my ears when listening at reasonable, and even low, volumes. Perhaps it was a problem with the amps I used (WoooAudio WA8, Alo Pan Am)I. I'm not sure the appropriate way to describe this sensation--perhaps it's the impact and pop Tyll describes in his review--but it was unpleasant for me. I also found the upper mid dip to be distracting.

    I also had a brief opportunity to test the Utopia (via the WA8), and it was fantastic. I'm looking forward to getting an opportunity to spend more time with them in the future.
     
  12. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I echo this. Got my Elear a couple nights ago and after listening to the HD600 (stock) and HD650M all day in preparation, I was disappointed. Full rig description in my profile. T3 lo Z setting used for Elear.

    A few notes:
    • Build Quality is good (though these look and feel much cheaper than Utopia),
    • Comfort: Pads are super comfortable and my larger ears fit well in them. There is also more space in the cups than the HD6x0. Headband is very comfortable too. No hotspots like I occasionally get with the HD6x0.
    • Cable: I love the long cable as a living room listener. Made the HD600 cable look like a piece of dental floss.
    • Fatigue:
      • Day 1: Bass and speed was impressive at first. After a while, listening to the same albums I had listened to earlier in the day, I just kept wanting to turn the volume down, even lower than my typical levels (78-80dB average, measured on an iPhone app). Dull headache and fatigue set in and I just wanted to take them off.
        • Did not have this experience during the couple hours I demoed the Utopia for a while ago.
      • Day 2: I listened to the Elear earlier in the day today and started at a lower volume. Not quite as bad of an experience as the first day fatigue-wise. Frequency response is another story...
    • Rock/punk is disappointing for me on the Elear. :confused:
      • I've been listening to Weezer's Pinkerton recently in honor of its 20th anniversary, and the midrange dip was especially noticeable on this album. Distorted guitar riffs were noticeably quieter and the album somehow lost its edge and energy. I didn't think this was possible.
      • Cymbals sound weird too. The peaky treble is definitely noticeable, and cymbals lack the body they do on the HD6x0. The peaks must come into play here, as most cymbals just sounded tizzy and unrealistic to me. I'm no percussionist, but when cymbals sound off to me then it's game over. This is the main reason I sold the K7XX.
      • One positive is that the lower distortion and blacker background made quick kick drum hits more delineated and audible. HD650M was second best here (I use Damplifier Pro for my mass loading) and HD600 third (unfair comparison as those are still stock).
    • Classical is especially disappointing on the Elear. As @Psalmanazar predicted here, violins sound horribly off. I directly compared movements of Bach's Violin Concerto in A Minor on the Elear/lo Z with my HD650M/hi Z. On the Elear, it sounded like the violins were either recorded in a toilet or in a room behind the concert hall separate from the rest of the orchestra. The violins sounded like violins on the same stage as the other instruments/players with the HD650M. Did not directly compare classical on Elear with HD600 given the latter's midrange bump (wanted a somewhat fair fight).
    • Mods/tuning: Interestingly, I could "tune" the Elear's response by cupping my hands around the cups and moving them out and in until I struck a decent balance. I don't want to worry about that with $1,000 headphone, nor am I going to tape or velcro third-party pads or felt to the same. HD650M is probably as far into headphone modding as I'm going to get. Maybe I'll eat my hat in a couple years after Elear mods are refined and I've heard modded pairs at shows or through a loaner, etc. for an extended period.
    My favorite things about these headphones are the long, thick cable and the looks/comfort. I'd take either HD6x0 of mine over these in a heartbeat given their more neutral frequency response and more enjoyable tonality. That's the same reason I sold the HD800/SDR.

    Edit: Sold the Elear after a couple days, especially because I have a Utopia on the way. Haven't regretted it once.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  13. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I would say your loss if not for the Utopia on the way. Though I'm not sure what would be offputting about cleanly adhered pads and front damping vs being able to see Dynamat inside an HD650 and a hole cutout in front of the driver, plus people seem fine with modding the pricey HD800 too. I get why someone would not want to bother seeing the price tag or general effort (Elear is easier to mod than 650), but the potential seems to be there. I really think with mods we're looking at an actual "super HD650." Or about as close as we'll ever get subjectively. Stock pads are just that nasty and don't do the Elear justice.
     
  14. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Finally got around to comparing Elear and modded 650 with Weezer, and I do agree that the guitar crunch and cohesion is definitely there on the sennheisers, less so on the Elear (which also show some tizziness and fatigue you experienced as well).

    BUT, the Elear do sound clearer, more detailed, blacker background, etc... I'm with @Hands on this one, I think they show a lot of potential with some pretty minor mods (nothing like snapping plastic cages off the backs of drivers, or stuffing rings into holes) to be super-650s or mini-utopias. I'm going to order some HM5 pads to see if eliminating the suckout in measurement translates to experience!
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Better to think of it as a Super Elear rather than a Super HD650. The HD650 treble smoothness and midrange righteousness is unlikely to be replicated. The Elear's peak at 22-23kHz will never go away and will cause inter-modulation issues. It's like those metal dome tweeters with 22kHz spikes.
     
  16. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Yeah, that's fair. Trade offs with a very cohesive and smooth tone for some extra clarity, less veil, possibly better dynamics. Both can still have very balanced tone, post mods on both, in their own ways to the point it becomes something I don't nitpick about either way and start worrying about other aspects more.
     
  17. Dash

    Dash Friend

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    I am still in awe over the HD 6x0's. Is there any other headphone that has withstood the march of time so well? I really want to hear the Elear but I am still very satisfied with my HD600's.
     
  18. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    What I want to know is how this compares to the Elear
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The only thing is that its not fully open back. You can expect the Elear to sound more open and more dynamic since this is bio-cellulose. A better comparison would probably be the TH900 but I think this will be in the same price bracket as the Elear and you know Zach doesn't tune his gear really bright.
     
  19. mrweirdude

    mrweirdude Asshole lowballer - acquaintance

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    Wait, ZMF is pushing out a new headphone based on biocell drivers? Source?
     
  20. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    ZMF Eikon -
    The source is the source
    They are 300 ohm bio cellulose.

    He has another model TPE without wood cups called the ZMF Atticus.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016

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