2016 July NY Meet impressions

Just wanted to make a thread for impressions. Thanks to everyone for coming out to the meet once again. It was great seeing the gang from last time and seeing new faces as well. I'm off to bed, so ill post more sometime tomorrow.

 

1. Andromedas 4 lyfe.
2. Audeze phones don't scale well with high end tube gear (especially in terms of soundstage).
3. Code-X is my favorite planar to date.
4. Overnight Sensations are great!
5. Need to invest more in speakers.
6. Hifiman Edition S........

 

@sphinxvc, I found next build, the MTM- OS, I think it could be a KEF LS50's killer. I don't know if we need to wait for them to get back in Stock, I'd rather build my own enclosure.


Thanks to the group for the warm welcome and thanks @SteelCannon for hosting.

 

1. Andromedas were good, though I would have liked to try them with a different source to see how the bass varies with output impedance. Would have liked a larger soundstage (it's large, but not huge) too, but it's an IEM; only so much I can expect. Tonality was spot on though, a very nice balance.
2. I thought the Audeze had a okay front/back sense of space, but nothing in the left/right aspects. Guitars and other instruments seemed way too close to my ear with (what I think was) the Asgard.
3. Code X was surprisingly good for a source headphone of that price. If I had the money (and a great amp) I would totally grab those. Seemed a little on the brighter side to me, though I only had 2 minutes with them.
4. Overnight Sensations are awesome. I don't have much experience with speakers, but other than detail (great, not TOTL obviously) everything else was top notch.
5. Wanted to compare the Edition S to other closed back headphones, as that's its primary usage, but couldn't find any other than the TH-X00. Also wanted to test with a dac/amp setup, not only through a smartphone. I didn't see anyone actually use mine, so I'm surprised that Higgs and sphinxvc listened to it. Are you guys comparing these to open-back's or closed-back's? I'm just trying to get a sense of why these need to be shot.
6. The JBL speakers need a grip on its bass. Once that's taken care off I can actually hear the rest of the spectrum lol.
7. I wish I had more time with the 650 + Valhalla 2 combo, but from what I heard it was very promising. Some other combo's with the 650 just lacked too much clarity and detail for me, tbh.
8. Really need to hear the DBA-02/B2's, I totally forgot about that.
9. Never really did find any stock/modded/HD800/S to my taste. I really loved the Electrostatics (Probably Boze's Stax?), and although it isn't my preferred signature personally, it was extremely impressive.

And thanks to @SteelCannon for hosting (+ food, drinks, and octopus stories), and @thegunner100 for bearing with all my excuses, inviting me, driving me to where I needed to go, and arranging this whole thing. It was fun!

 

It's just out of stock, I'm sure you could buy all the components you need for the build.

 

First Thanks to @SteelCannon For Hosting & for food & Drinks, @thegunner100 for organizing

The CodeX was well balanced compared to the Audeze cans

Still not a fan of the HD800S.Much prefer the modded HD800

I also liked the Black Widow with the stock HD650, I am not a fan of the Quarter mod but like the dampning mod.

I didn't stay for the speaker setup but Gives me incentive to finally put my speaker system back together.

always great to hang with everyone.

 

I spent some quality time with SteelCannon's modded 650s. My first chance to hear these after lots of time with my stock 650s. I liked the modded 650s out of his Torpedo (must be that amber LED), but I wasn't sold on them out of my Black Widow. The increased liveliness (?) ends up being a bit fatiguing for me over a long session. I'll be sticking with stock.

Got to try @Serious modded 800s. His combo of mods – SD, rug-liner, pad plastic trim (ask him about this one) – smoothed these out nicely. No trouble spots and they measured better on his rig than the other modded 800s that were there. Not my sound signature, but impressive.

Bozebuttons' Stax 007s (Mk I) were great. Incredible detail and natural sound. Ultimately I prefer dynamics, but these were a nice surprise. Note for next time: bring a CD of reference music I know well (even though I appreciated the Suzanne Vega and Simply Red)

@Maxx134 had his modded PM-2s, which sound great. An obvious improvement in the bass, stage and tone over the stock PM-2s. Highly recommended if you have these headphones.

Completely agreed. Lol. Play count for Hotel California was in the high teens I'm sure

Great seeing everyone! Thank you @thegunner100 for organizing, @SteelCannon for hosting and looking forward to next time.

 

It was too late for me this time, but next

In my observation, it is a tonality issue.
I currently own the edition S, along with the Audeze Sine, Ultrasone ED5, and the PM2.

Although they are all very different I would still group them together with the edition S as top portables.

They all have different strengths, so would be used for different purposes .

The edition S tries to use its signature to highlight soundstaging, which seems to be a preoccupation with HiFiMan latest models...

 

Bozebuttons' Stax 007s (Mk II?) were great. Incredible detail and natural sound. Ultimately I prefer dynamics, but these were a nice surprise. Note for next time: bring a CD of reference music I know well (even though I appreciated the Suzanne Vega and Simply Red)

Those where 007mk Is.

 

I also feel unsure about the tonality, especially about where it puts its bass. People were trying to weigh it compared to the 650's, which I think is an unfair comparison due to being two very different types of headphones. About the open-back "functionality", I would really be interested in seeing whether it has some sort of scale with a legit amp. My inclination would say no, but I want to make sure - especially since there's a specific someone that says it's a different beast when fed through an amp. He's probably bluffing/justifying his purchase, but I do find it interesting that he'd go there; with no validity that's seems like a stretch to even think about.

As a closed headphone, it would need to be compared to closed ones. As an open, it would need to be tried on an amp. I think the whole thing is probably a gimmick, but the soundstage did surprise me, even closed.

 

Hey Steelcannon,
Your house was great!
U R a fantastic host.
So thanks to you & theGunner for hosting because it was so nice to see all of you and so many common interests new friends to meet.


Will post some impressions soon.

 

They sounded very strong and seemed to have it all but a bit darker when compared to the Jade wich I prefer for its more airy lively presentation.
I was rather surprised how those 007 sounded better than I heard at last meet so with your last comment I am now wondering if the other 007 were different version as well.
I not up to speed on knowledge concerning electrostatics. .

 

Some notes:

I am pretty dissapointed with my HE1000 because I was VERY careful in modding it this time around,
And by the end of the day, one socket developed a connection problem!
Now I have to open them up again.
I am hoping it just a soldering issue,
But from my observation,
I do not like the wire which seems to easily break off at the socket when moving it. I may look into rewiring the drivers...

Also,
The Code-X in the meet are mine that Craig had borrowed for a while.
To me, they are the best planar when it comes to tonality,
But after I refurbished them I was not using them for a long time as I was busy modding Ethers and HEK.
To me, they remain a solid favorite but I still use the hd800 and HEK more,
So they say I'm crazy to let these rare headphones go so I am still debating.

Also,
I really not up to speed on the speaker and amp setups.
I do have a nice BK preamp and amp I could bring next time.

More comments later.

 

@sphinxvc I sold the jbl 530s this morning! As soon as they get picked up, Ill give you a call so you can help me pick out something else XD

Quick impressions:

Overnight sensations are reference level in terms of neutrality. Ls50s were impressive but they had warmed mids and too much treble for my taste. Ragnarok held its own compared to stratos plus and fw j2.

Andromedas were exceptional, especially if you are upper mid/treble sensitive like I am. Bass quantity and extension is good but it was unrefined and unnatural. I don't regularly use iems so it is hard to judge just how good these are. Overall pretty neutral and resolving with great mids and treble. I will be on the lookout for a used set going forward.

I was impressed by @Serious's modded hd800s. They were too bright out of the lampi/ec 2a3 setup but on the Yggdrasil/torpedo 3 they sounded engaging and natural. The thinness of other hd800s I have heard was not there. I would have liked some more time with them to see if they became fatiguing.

After listening to the rough upper mids/treble of the jade the esp 950 were a sweet recourse. Great tonality and totally unoffensive.

The lcd x was neutral-ish on the bright ec 2a3/lampi setup. The treble was a bit funky and mids were warmed but bass had great definition and physicality. Not a huge fan of planars but if I had to choose one I would take the code x. The code x was more open compared to the lcd x and tighter, more controlled across the range. It did lack the slam and bass definition of the lcd x though.

My favorite setup was @thegunner100's Yggdrasil/ torpedo 3/ modded hd650s, @Serious' modded hd800s. This beat out the lampi/ec 2a3/modded hd800 and the Yggdrasil/electrostatic kgsshv carbon/007 in my opinion.

Can we please get a zana on the east coast guys!

 

That was Kerrys O2mk 1 that you heard as well, but mine actually does sound better then his for some reason.

 

Part 1 of pics


The Kef LS50s and Isoacoustics stands



In the process of setting up!


The first watt J2


Our smallest listening table


Speakers stored in the back... for now!


Various headphones, including @Maxx134 modded he-1000


Overnight Sensations MT, JBL 530s, KEF LS50s


Craig's Lampi Lite 7 and Eddie Current 2A3 MK IV with the Bifrost Multibit and first watt J2 hiding in the back


The legendary hifiman jades


Boops' Gungnir Multibit and EC BW with my Valhalla 2 on top

I have a few more pics to upload, but I'll get to it sometime tomorrow along with impressions hopefully. I'll try to get Craig to post the pictures from his DSLR or have him send them to me.

 

Thanks for hosting this awesome meet @SteelCannon and thanks for organizing @thegunner100. This was pretty much the first meet I ever attended a community meet and it was lots of fun.


HE Jade
This was hooked up to the amazing Theta Data Basic II/Yggdrasil setup and driven by the KGSSHV Carbon. Is that a bright amp? The Jade just sounded way too bright and forward for me (brighter than my UERM), but at the same time I thought that it was really good in the technicalities department. Clear and resolving sounding with less of that stat coloration than the STAX. I felt like the upper mids (2-3kHz?) sounded a little too forward for my tastes, which is weird looking at the measurements. What really put me off was the L/R imaging with very little depth. The HE90s have slightly angled pads, while I think these pads were flat. These really need the secret Marv treatment.
Overall I think that saying that these are a poor man's HE90 is like saying that the HD700 is a poor man's HD800, but maybe some mods and using both off the HEV90 would make them closer.

007 MK1
I've always only heard the MK2.5 version and I was very curious to see how the MK1 compares. The problem here is that I've never heard a STAX headphone from such a good system before, but I feel like I prefer the 007 MK1 over the MK2 and the SR009. This SR007 MK1 still has some of the 1kHz emphasis that I hate about the STAX phones and the MK2.5 in particular. but not as bad as the MK2.5. I didn't feel that it was dark sounding. The KGSSHV Carbon is probably a good match for the 007. Lots of air. More 3D and coherent staging than Jade, but probably less resolving and clear.

Andromeda
Man, these are good. I listened to them with the black foam tips off my GO450/Leckerton UHA-6Smk2. The Leckerton has too low of an output impedance resulting in a bassier sound than I would've liked, but otherwise these were really good. The best treble I've ever heard in an IEM. A step up in terms of clarity, coherency and resolution compared to the UERM. Still not close to HD800 resolution IMO. Slightly better treble extension than the UERM, too (felt like it starts dropping off at 16-17kHz). Maybe the mid-treble was a little too subdued for my tastes, but higher OI would likely improve this.
The midrange wasn't quite perfect for me, especially because the lower mids were too emphasized for me. I prefer the UERM midrange frequency response. The measurements @Marvey has posted also look like this can't quite be fixed with a higher OI. The slight tilt towards the lower midrange always seems to stay. The bass presentation felt a little too focused on the subbass to me. It also still has the distortion problems that many BA drivers seem to have in the lower mids and bass.
Great imaging precision, but slightly wide staging. My custom UERM has a larger and deeper stage but imaging seemed similar enough. The stage on the Andromeda is probably slightly larger than the UERM demo that I heard.

Overall this is an extremely well tuned phone at a high price. As an overall package I would take it over the UERM, but for me it doesn't beat the UERM in every aspect. My preferences for tonal balance are somewhere between UERM and Andromeda from the upper mids on and closer to the UERM fom 20Hz to 2kHz. I'm sure that the tonal balance improves with higher output impedance though.

TH-X00
Man, these are beautiful. Otherwise, meh. Slightly U-shaped with annoying treble and not very good bass quality. Doesn't isolate a ton. Still probably one of the best closed headphones out there.

3 modded HD800s
While I'm not really unbiased, I preferred mine. Mine were the only ones that had a realistic sounding midrange to me, which is the thing that I most focused on when I modded mine. To me, mine also had the most together sounding soundstage. Mine were also the only ones that measured flat from 100Hz to 4kHz (± 0.75db). On my measurements, mine were also the least peaky. The treble from 8kHz onwards was very similar on all of them in the measurements. They do still sound slightly bright to me but I feel like it's the best compromise for me right now. Most of these improvements in the measurements are due to the SBAF mod btw.
Sidenote: The HD800S measured horribly peaky on my head with a deep notch at 6kHz. Why is this? The "6kHz peak" is at 5kHz on my measurements, so tuning a resonator to 6kHz is not the right idea to make it more linear.

Theta Data/Yggdrasil/Torpedo 3
Like SteelCannon I felt that this was the best sounding setup there. I preferred Dr.Higgs's modded Torpedo 3 with the modded HD650s, because it was brighter and livelier in the midrange and SteelCannon's T3 with my HD800 because it was warmer. I've never actually heard an Yggdrasil before and man, I was impressed. While I didn't really listen to the Gungnir Multibit setup much, in my brief time that I listened to it I felt like the differences between Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil are bigger than I was led to believe (but then again they were hooked up to different transports. I felt like the MacBook Air was a particularly bad transport. By the way - I forgot to mention this at the meet - did anyone try unplugging the power cable from the MacBook? I did and I thought it sounded better, but that could also be placebo).
This setup just sounded really good across the board. I also heard a clear difference in terms of staging with the polarity switch on the Yggdrasil, both on headphones and speakers. With the other dacs that I've tried, the staging doesn't really change, mostly only things like the feel of the bass. It's amazing how this could go from super pinpoint to diffuse depending on the track. Actually, it could reproduce images that were pinpoint and others that were diffuse at the same time. And when you press the polarity switch, the images that were pinpoint change to being diffuse and the images that were diffuse become more pinpoint. Wow. This felt like a huge "f**k you MSB at High End 2016" with their $150k SR009 setup to me. From memory this was clearly better than the MSB. To be fair that was fed by a MacBook Air. Haha.
I also preferred this to the Estat setup on the same table, especially with my HD800. I'm really not a fan of planar drivers, both in speakers and headphones.

Lampi/EC 2A3
Why was this so bright? What a shame, because otherwise this would've probably been great. I felt like the Lampi dac wasn't as good as the Yggdrasil. Great layering, imaging precision and microdynamics, probably from the 2A3.


Speakers
We spent a lot of time comparing speakers and the amps. At the beginning when we used the Rag as an active pre, the other amps all sounded like "Rag but worse" to me. That got much better when we started using the Sys as a passive pre.
I've heard some really great speaker setups before, some of which were really close to making me give up on headphones, but these were not it. None of these speakers sounded particularly impressive to me, except maybe the Overnight Sensations considering their cheap price. Even the LS50s, which were probably the best technically - but not tonally, still didn't sound as resolving as the HD650 to me. The Overnight Sensations were the most neutral sounding. I've heard the LS50s sound more neutral before but in this case they always seemed too bright for my tastes.
Of all the 3 big amps I still ended up preferring the Rag, but the Rag is more made for bigger, higher sensitivity speakers. It really starts to sound worse when you crank it up with one these inefficient speakers.
I was generally exhausted and couldn't focus as well by the time we got to the speakers, so I'm sure others will have more in-depth thoughts on the differences of the amps.

Things I didn't listen to:
ESP950, Code-X, Audeze, Pinnacle P1, HFM Edition S, Cavalli LC, J2 with my HD800 and so many more...

 

@Serious .. great Andromeda vs UERM impressions.. though I no longer have my UERM, your general points mirror my thoughts. The UERM is more 'reference' to my ears than the Andromeda.. UERM's mids remain the king in an IEM, IMO.