2016 July NY Meet impressions

That's interesting indeed. I haven't had that exact experience, though it did sound thin when closed. What is a buzzkill for me is the raised subbass, but reduced mid and upper bass (kind of disorienting). I assume your smartphone was the source?

If it was out of the DacAmp One I brought, the Sabre DAC makes some cans sound anemic. It could still sound anemic from the phone, though, so it would be great to know the source.

Just an edit; without the covers it actually sounds a lot fuller and less thin (@Maxx134 seemed to say the same). You tried them covers on or off @sphinxvc ?

I'm not sure how I like these when open, it's still a bit funky (highs are still weird) but better than closed. I need to try these with an amp though. I wonder if the measurements are with them open, closed, or both. Perhaps that could explain the discrepancies?

 

For the edition S,
I never use the covers on as it kills the bass and soundstage a bit.
There is a midrange dip which is what will make these a "like-or-hate" headphone.
I felt they were trying to emphasize the Soundstage.
The presentation changes noticeably with different music as well.

The Audeze do this more.
On some tracks they sound anemic until you play a bass track and then it punches your head like a full size can.
Sorry I couldn't bring it at the time I only had 5 headphones on me,
But I am sure you both would prefer it over the edition S, except for it being an "on-ear".

@Serious,
I know you didn't want to consider your measurements taken at the meet optimal, so if your still interested to take some measurements again I can bring any of my headphones to you if your not too far away.

 

I could also see how someone would prefer the Andromeda mids based on technicalities and not frequency response. I feel like the UERM has a slight veil despite being bright that the Andromeda didn't seem to have, or at least not as bad.

Regarding my measurements:
They are generally very noisy, so no distortion measurements. I also only took measurements on my head. Ideally I would've taken measurements both on my head and on the coupler. Because of this I don't really feel comfortable posting measurements. @Hands did a great writeup on in ear measurements here.

Maybe at some point we could take in ear measurements from various people and compare their subjective thoughts on a headphone with the measurements. I have a feeling that some headphones like the HD650 don't interact with the different ears very differently and will sound very similar for every person while other headphones might vary more across different people (maybe the HD800?).

If I wanted to post my measurements, where should I put them? Right now I feel like, if anything, I should put them all in one thread.

The Edition S:
I didn't listen to them, but my measurements don't look so bad, except for a big peak around 4kHz. My modded HD800 and the HD650s measured flat here, so a peak there is not a good thing at all. I got a slightly better seal with my right ear and the peak looks worse on the left channel (9db vs 6db). They also have a 5db bass hump starting around 300Hz and centered around 100Hz, provided one gets a good seal. It's also possible that there's some brightness between 8 and 10kHz. Generally U-shaped, unless you get a bad seal where it will most likely just sound grating and simply bad.

The weird thing is, when I measure speakers with the microphone at the same position in my ear canal, the frequency response does have a big peak at 4kHz, but at the same time I like to see flat here for headphones. The same thing applies to IEMs where the DF target sounds like shit IMO, despite being closer to the measured speaker response. In this case I think speakers and headphones are just so different that one shouldn't simplify the whole manner down to FR measurements.

 

Well, I didn't take measurements with speakers pointed directly at my ear from a very close distance and I'm not sure if I saved the 90° straight at my ear measurements, but yes, the angle of the speakers against the head does affect the measurements a lot. Also the amount of direct vs reflected energy. Generally the peak at 4kHz never goes away when I measure speakers.

It's also very possible that while the measurements for speakers vs headphones at the ear canal opening look very different, that they will look more similar at the eardrum. This is the big question to me and essentially decides whether I feel Tyll's attempts at getting a better compensation curve for his dummy head gets us close to a target response for headphones or not.

I did notice similar features in mine vs Tyll's measurements, for example a drop in energy between 700Hz and 2kHz when playing both speakers instead of one, which I actually think might be a good feature to have in headphone measurements.

 

Thanks! Just for curiousity's sake, did the Edition S have the plates on or off for the measurements?

 

I'm not sure myself anymore (duh). They were @Maxx134's, weren't they? If so, based on what he said about the covers, I would assume that they didn't have the covers on.

 

Sounds about right, I'm hearing the bass hump as well, and something quirky in the highs - though the measurements definitely clear up what that is. I still haven't gotten a great seal on these after 2 months, so it's definitely a tricky matter in that regard.

I mean, I don't think you tested mine, unless someone volunteered them when I wasn't looking I should have asked you to test them though, if only to see the consistency between pairs. If you decide to come back to NY one of these days to visit @Maxx134 or something (I think I live nearby), I'd be cool having mine measured to.

 

@sphinxvc I'm torn, i would love these as some nice desktop monitors, but want to do a bigger project like the TriTrix

 

Don't the OSMT cost only $80 under that? If the Tritrix is a pair, and the OSMT price is for each...

 

This wouldn't be for mains, just for a desktop setup which the OS-MT would be fine for. I just want something different

I could get the OS-MT for my office, if you want to do a build night when yours comes in, I'm sure we could knock out the unfinished cabinents in a night, and seeing how that goes could plan something for a bigger build for mains like the Sunflower redux or a Troels Gravesen designed setup

 

A few pictures for tonight... Part 2

 

First, thanks to @SteelCannon for hosting and @thegunner100 for organizing this meet. As always, it was great seeing old friends and meeting some new ones. And also as usual I had to leave earlier than I would have liked and completely missed the speakers shootout.

Impressions in no particular order:

1. Andromedas. I know literally nothing about IEMs and have very little experience with them. But I have to say I liked these a lot and was shocked at how much soundstage you could get from an IEM. Mind you it was pretty much left to right for me without too much height (but maybe a little depth), but still far exceeded my expectations in that respect. Very nice tonality although I might have preferred a tad more bass (although I may not have had the best seal). Good detail. This was all out of my Iphone 5s and I didn’t feel the need for additional amping (or DACing). I have no idea how much IEMs “should” cost. But if these were $500 or $600 it would be an insta-buy for me. At $1,099 I need to think about whether such an expense on IEMs are warranted as they would be mostly for the subway.

2. Modded Torpedo 3 + Yggdrasil + theta player + HD 6x0 was probably my favorite setup. I tended to favor my stock HD 600 over any of the modded 650s although that is personal preference and all the Senns sounded good on that setup. The Yggdrasil and Theta as a source also really benefited my Liquid Carbon. I think that the LC is a mediocre at best pairing with the HD 600 (I have this at home). But with Yggdrasil and Theta as source my Senns sounded way better (more full and powerful) although this is still not a preferred pairing.

3. Black Widow. My second time hearing @Boops Black Widow. A great solid state amp. Although I sometimes find it too laid back when paired with the HD 650. Did wonders for my Oppo PM-2 and particularly @Maxx134 ’s modded PM-2. His mod is definitely an improvement over stock. I will likely either to try to replicate his mod or sell off my stock pair. BW seems a great buy at the price to the extent there will be more made available.

4. Jade. I liked it in the way I enjoy any good electrostat, but I much preferred the Stax 007 Mk I also driven by the theta, which I found to have a bit more body.

5. Ragnarok. A good powerful amp, but somehow lacking for me. That said, I should really re-consider these as I do run speakers. Unfortunately, I did not get to hear these as a speaker amp at the meet.

6. Audeze LCDs/Lohb strap. The Lohb strap really does help with the (dis)comfort of Audeze headphones. I enjoyed the LCD-3 and LCD-X that were at the meet. I would love to own an Audeze because I like their sound signature, but not sure I would end up listening to it as much as to my HD 600. Money would probably be better spent on a Torpedo III.

I missed all sorts of stuff (e.g., Code-X; HD800S). But it was mostly great hanging out with you all. Finally, I am really impressed with the critical listening skills of you guys. I would pass headphones back and forth with another member and get really detailed impression and compare and contrasts that were spot on. And I would say something inarticulate like “yeah, it was moar better”. Probably a lot like this post. Well, at least I tend to know what I like (more or less). Until the next time.

Edit: I also really liked the First Watt amp with the modded HD 650. Only listened to it briefly but it had lots of space and nice tonality. It really was the sound I am looking for from the Senn HD 6x0 but the price and package (in terms of size) is prohibitive.

 

It's a little overdue, but I've been busy with work and dealing with my car being broken into. It was a great meet overall, especially with the addition of the speakers. I would love if we could start the meet at an earlier time cause I know there's definitely stuff that a lot of us wished we could have had the chance to listen to. Even at the end, it would have been nice if we could play around with the speakers and amp for a little longer. Being the organizer, I had to go out a lot and do various things so I didn't have as much time as everyone esle. Making it on a Saturday would help a lot too, since most of us wouldn't have to worry about work the next week. But we'll see when the time comes for another mini meet. Anyways, impressions!

• Andromedas - These were really good out of the AK Jr. The sound that they had was what I hoped from the UERR. While they do sound better than the UERMs in most areas, I don't want to give up my customs since I commute on the train for about 2 hours each day now. The UERMs are still really good and I'd have to say that I don't miss the Andromedas. Overall the tonal balance was really good and the best thing about the andromedas over the UERMs was the bass quantity and quality. That being said, I found that the DX90 with its <1 ohm output gave the andromedas way too much bass
• Theta Data Basic II via AES + Yggdrasil - I really wish I had plugged my valhalla 2 into this combo or tried out my modded hd650s with Higg's modded TIII. A few of you said this was the best sounding setup at the meet and I'm sad that I didn't get to listen to it. I did hear the Jade and 007s briefly out of this setup though. The Jades sounded kind of bright to me and I largely preferred the 007s. Still, estats don't have enough of a bass presence and weight for me to enjoy them.
• LCD-X (2016) via Lampi Lite 7 + EC 2A3 MKIV - Ehhhh, I didn't like the original LCD-X to begin with and I don't think the revision did enough to improve on them. Still somewhat closed in sounding for an open headphone.

Speaker stuff:

• @OJneg, I can't thank you enough for the Overnight Sensations build. I've been loving them ever since I got them and to see how well they've scaled with the Yggdrasil and better amps like the Odyssey Stratos + Sys was a pleasure. I've definitely managed to create a few fans out of this meet. These speakers really held their own over the LS50s. They don't quite have the technicalities but they have a special quality to them that makes me just enjoy the music and forget about technicalities. I was quite surprised at how well they did despite us being in a decently sized room, especially their bass response. My listening in my living room wasn't nearly as good. Maybe I just needed an amp with a lot more power output? @sphinxvc was kind enough to lend me his Stratos + Sys combo, which has been working fantastic in my bedroom with the OSMT. I look forward to trying them out in my living room this weekend if my family goes out.
• JBL 530s - They sounded okay near field when I listened to them at Steelcannon's apartment. But in the big room, they sounded pretty V shaped no matter what amp we tried it out of. I'm glad these were sold though!
• LS50s - I've heard them twice before. Once at a retail location with a mcintosh setup and at Higg's apartment. At the retail store, they sounded really warm but had good imaging and soundstaging. They sounded alright at Higg's apartment but it was hard to tell cause we couldn't play too loudly. At the meet, I thought that they sounded okay but were still too bright for my tastes.
• Odyssey Statos Plus - This was the winner amp imo, especially when we used it with the Sys instead of the Rag (pre-amp section). Lots of power with good driver control and overall enjoyable sound. It was basically the ideal amplifier for the three inefficient speakers that we had. I was thinking of getting one myself, but I'll probably hold off til schiit releases their stuff
• Ragnarok (as speaker amp) - I think the Rag did a fine job powering all 3 speakers but didn't do anything special. The rag is like a jack of all trades but master of none.
• First Watt J2 - Unfortunately it was pretty clear that this speaker was running out of power for our speakers and volume level. I look forward to hearing them with more ideal speakers at sphinx's house though.

Conclusions: We need more time at the meets. I think we should limit the comparisons with the speakers and amps cause it gets pretty tiring at the end of the meets. I think it would be nice if we could do some quick comparisons, figure out our favorite amp/speaker combination, and just listen to some music through that setup for the rest of the night. Oh, and pick our dinner place AHEAD of time. Also, sorry that my impressions aren't very articulate. I've been a casual scrub in the audio land since early this year .

Now, shoutouts!

• @Colgin - Wish you could have had the chance to listen to the Valhalla 2. Pm me and maybe I can lend it to you sometime or bring it over to your place for a listen on a weekend. Man, you need to stay til the end of the meets one of these days!
• @Dr. Higgs - Thanks for bringing all your gear over! I'm really glad that I got to her the LS50s in more ideal conditions and glad that you enjoyed the OSMT. We need to go over to Steelcannon's house when he gets his new speakers
• @sphinxvc - Thanks for lugging two huge power amps over, and for lending me one of them. The speaker comparison probably wouldn't have been as enjoyable without your gear. I'm glad that I made an OSMT fan out of you
• @take - K10 shill alert!!! I'm jk .
• @Boops - Thank you for bringing more EC gear to the east coast. You also need to stay for the end of the meets sometime!
• @bozebuttons - Mods/Admins, can we give this guy the title of "Audio Museum"? Thank you for always bringing out the really rare stuff that most people would otherwise never get the chance to hear. I really enjoyed being able to just look at your gear and wish I had more time to listen to it. Would you mind sharing with us the names of the albums that you brought?
• @Maxx134 - Sorry that your he-1000s broke again =/. I'm glad people were able to hear your code-x though!
• @SteelCannon - Thanks for hosting the meet and buying us food/coffee. I'll be seeing more of you soon enough anyways, so not much to say here
• @Josh - Thanks for driving sphinx out and I'm glad you enjoyed your first meet! I look forward to seeing your OSMT build once it's done!
• @cradon - He's not here, but thanks for bringing your setup all the way out here as always. He's the our only source of a totl EC amp here on the east coast.
• @IAmTheLampizator - Glad you enjoyed your first meet ever, and it was fun talking to you about various stuff! Also, you finally joined sbaf!
• @Serious - Also glad that you enjoyed your first meet! Too bad I didn't get to hear your modded hd800s. Maybe another time . I'd like to see your measurements of our various headphones sometime even though they weren't done in ideal conditions.
• @speedracer1 - Man, where did you go?!
• @Kelvin - Try out some more gear!!! xD

 

Ah, so it's Kelvin? I thought it was Calvin, lol. My bad.

It was great being by my first meet, and listening to things I would otherwise have no chance to listen to. Thanks again guys!

As for dinner places... well, there's always tuna

 

Thanks to @SteelCannon for being a great host and thanks to @thegunner100 for doing a great job organizing again. Everything went super smooth and I had a great time.

Here are some brief impressions:

Andromeda - These are "good" to me, not great. I have to say I was expecting something a bit more revelatory from the way it's been described. They have a good sense of air and separation, and do a nice job imaging. They have a pretty typically neutral sound signature, which is nice if that's what someone was looking for. Compared to my personal favorite IEM, the K10, I have to say I'm kind of spoiled by the warm and intimate midrange and increased bass presence over the Andromeda, even though the highs are less sparkly and less extended sounding. I felt like they were lacking in detail in the midrange, and I would prefer a bit more bass. Also, I heard a lot of hissing from my phone (Huawei Nexus 6P), whereas with most IEMs I get barely any hissing with it. The hissing was reduced on thegunner100's AK Jr., but they also seem to like to highlight any hissing in the tracks themselves, which can be pretty annoying. I think this hurts the versatility and convenience of an IEM. I should have tried these out of the Leckerton that was there since I know it's a super clean source. Overall, at the price I think it's a solid value for someone looking for a neutral IEM, but only if they have a good source.

First Watt J2 + Headphones - It made the LCD-3's high end super accentuated for some reason, not sure why that would be, but it was not fun at all. With the white & orange modded HD800, it sounded great, much better than with my Asgard 2 as an amp when I compared it. It took some of the edge off of the treble but kept the detail.

Estats - The Jade seemed just a tad bright for me, the 007 was nicer to my ears. I didn't know any of the music playing so I can't go crazy evaluating them, but I've heard the 007 before out of a BHSE and liked it. I also love swiveling the cups on the 007, it's a lot of fun . The ESP950 was nice sounding, except for the fact that they crackle; we were speculating that this was due to hair, but I don't even have long hair, so I'm not sure.

Grille removed LCD-X - I'm pretty sure this sounded a bit wider than the normal LCD-X, it definitely sounded a little wider than the LCD-3.

Code-X - Good performer, but lacking in the subbass compared to some other planars and a little bright for me personally. I didn't listen for that long though.

Speakers - The OSMT is surprisingly good. It has fantastic tonality and exactly as thegunner100 said earlier, although it isn't the most technical performer, it makes you forget and just enjoy the music. They're surprisingly room-filling for how tiny they are. Someone genuinely asked which was playing once, the LS50 or the OSMT, which says a lot about the OSMT either way. I wasn't a fan of the JBL 530s. I really enjoyed the LS50, although some amp & pre combos (the Rag as a pre isn't great) didn't serve it as well as others, I think it sounded great either way.