1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Video editing, transcoding, compiling, and math crunching are priorities. I'm fine with games on my ancient i7-820 and GTX670.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    So, a hard lessoned I learned was that banking on things being better down the road for a particular piece of hardware usually never paid off. Maybe it has some new feature set that looks like it'll pay dividends (thinking back to my weird obsession with the 6600GT having SM3.0 when the Radeon competitor was just better for that age). The more cores argument was similarly prominent when the Core 2 Quad came out, and by the time that many threads was really useful, Sandy Bridge was wiping the floor.

    Buying computer hardware on a future forecast often leaves the buyer with a lesser setup until their next upgrade. You have to focus on your current usage, where you want performance to excel, and build around that in the moment. By the time games are really utilizing 16 threads, do you really think anyone will care about Ryzen?

    Also, don't make "almost guarantee" remarks. Prove it with the number of reputable benchmarks floating around. It's like the one hobby where you can and should be fully objective and without the bullshit of wondering how to best handle stuff like headphone measurements.

    Leaks are lame. Can't be trusted. 50/50 or worse if they're accurate. I do agree the Intel mobos change sockets and chipsets too often. Again, investing in a future computer makes no sense. This is consumer hardware that will be way out of date before the prophecized future arrives. If you talk about the future or are always waiting for the next piece of hardware to release based on possible performance, you'll either be stuck with less optimal gear for your needs for 2-4 years or left waiting forever.

    Both the 6700k and 7700k are hot. They use shit TIM. But guess what? The 7700k has higher clock speeds out of the box than anything and appreciably better single core IPC than Ryzen. Plus the safe thermal threshold is high as hell, so even stock with a good cooler is a win win for performance over the 6700k. And if you want to OC, you have more headroom with clocks and may already be considering de-lidding. (FYI, I have a Skylake de-lidding tool I'd be willing to lend to anyone!)

    I do want to be clear I like AMD, am happy to see them out of a CPU K-hole, and Ryzen kicks ass for seriously multi-threaded purposes. But let's be real about people's actual needs and best hardware for their needs for today, not tomorrow. Even some general purpose machines with some gaming will still be best served by Intel.
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    And in your case, Ryzen will probably work best. Just be sure the apps you use aren't crippled on Ryzen for weird reasons with developers being silent on a possible fix. Most non-gaming apps are actually pretty good in this regard, supporting lots of threads or with active developer support to make Ryzen sing. Gaming is ass backwards despite the latest consoles having lots of CPU cores...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  4. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Dunno, maybe it was just Intel's complacency with their market position or simply their inability to push the Core architecture they've been hanging on to for 11 years any further but my Sandy Bridge CPU was only really just getting to the point where I was starting to feel the impact of it being so dated, 5 years is a solid run and 2-3 years of use should be the minimum expected.

    I don't think it's wise to be buying a system you expect to be upgrading in a years time and I certainly don't see any Kaby Lake CPU lasting very long with 6-core mainstream CPUs and (finally) 10nm around the corner. Computers are still an investment and at this point in time unless all you plan to do with the system is play games then Kaby Lake is a very bad investment.

    Now unless you're using a GPU that is struggling to meet a minimum framerate, you're not going to notice the 5-10FPS difference between a Ryzen system and a Kaby Lake system when you're hovering around 80-90 FPS and your framerates will likely be more consistent with the former. I see the benefits of a 7600K/7700K far outweighed by the drawbacks

    It isn't even a question in this case, grab a 1600, slap the stock cooler on it and get on with the more important things in your life (especially with the time saved from having those extra threads). The platform is in very good shape currently and even on launch had less issues than X99 still does to this day and it can only improve moving forward.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah, my problem is avoiding an OS reinstall, but I'll just move the old mobo and HD as-is for use as the family computer. That way I can take my time reinstall the app and utils that I need, and use the family computer if I need to use the old apps in a pinch.
     
  6. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Quickest way I've found to do it is to back up your AppData folder and anything else containing program settings and simply pasting it back into the new install once you have all your all programs installed, they should run just like they did on the old install.
     
  7. Galm

    Galm Still looking for Little Red Riding Hood

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    Nah I'll try and find it later but for sli it does matter. Double digit percent difference in performance.

    Single gpu its fine though.

    Sorry about that I've been on mobile so I couldnt easily look up a benchmark without chewing data by watching vids. I'll update later, but from a couple pics I saw eh, you're right its probably more even than Ryzen winning.

    However its hard to find a good benchmark with good ram.

    Yeah damn... Ryzen latency is dependant on ram speed which most online reviewers dont test correctly. Additionally all the BF1 benchmarks tend to be 1440p or 4K which is a gpu bottleneck (which to be fair intel will eek out a little more performance during) but I'm struggling to find a good benchmark showing 1080p Ryzen vs Intel with like a 1080 Ti on BF1.

    For sli though about the lanes:
    https://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=11059897&postcount=2261

    This page has great benchmarks showing the difference.

    I generally agree about not buying for the future. I mentioned it in this case because intel isn't all that far ahead to the point where gaming on Ryzen is a large sacrifice. Especially for the money I still think Ryzen is a good buy, that may have the added benefit of staying relevant longer from more cores.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Yes, may have added benefit. Historically, it doesn't usually play out that way. Sometimes, but not usually. I've been bitten too many times relying on that logic to justify my purchase I made. And game developers are surprisingly behind the times as a whole with these matters. It's why you still see modern games released that rely heavily on single core performance. That should have changed years ago when people bought the Core 2 Quad with the same logic in mind. Pretty sad how far we've come, yeah?

    Not saying Ryzen isn't a good buy. It definitely is if you are doing productivity and production sort of work and need that over some extra gaming performance. For me, I couldn't care less if everything but games run slower due to motion sickness I can get while gaming if frames aren't high and buttery smooth. I hate Nvidia, but they have the best cards on the high end now, and I have anecdotally had better luck with their drivers and G-sync (godsend for my motion sickness). Again, it isn't about brand loyalty, but what makes using my computer a more enjoyable experience in my budget. I'd buy AMD everything if it all met my needs this very second.

    Also why I fully endorse Ryzen for Marv. Fits his needs better in the present, today, right now, and at a good price for those needs too.

    Yeah, I'm both trying to give a message of caution to others (avoid my mistakes!) and will fully admit the blind, near cult-like Ryzen fanboyism going around has made me a bit cranky. :) Again, Marv has a good use case for Ryzen. I do not. It's best to not downplay any person's situation and needs to support what brand you prefer or hardware you currently run.

    Also have fun spending tons of money on fast RAM. ;) :p
     
  9. Galm

    Galm Still looking for Little Red Riding Hood

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    I agree! I have very sensitive eyes and get migraines a lot, and 165Hz GSync is absolutely incredible.

    Anyway as for long term benefits I'd say it can vary. A lot of people who buy things hoping for long term benefits are out of luck. But people who bought like the R9 290X saw great value vs even the RX 580 right now. Even the 7970 is still not a bad card.

    It's definitely not a main reason to buy anything. But if for the most part the AMD vs Intel performance is close enough to your tastes I would lean towards AMD to not only support them but also have those extra cores. Obviously this doesn't make sense for someone like you who needs the high fps, but it may make sense for @Marvey.

    And I agree with that last paragraph thanks for checking me! (Paragraph, not the (accurate) ram thing lol :p)

    But yeah with this:
    Ryzen all day!
     
  10. smithj

    smithj Acquaintance

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    I know we've probably bashed this topic to death but I think its worth pointing out that HardOCP recently did a whole host of gaming benchmarks between the Ryzen R7 1700, i7 7700k and i7 2600k. Unlike most other reviews, they've got frame rate graphs and tested varying GPU configurations and resolutions. The general takeaways are:
    • Ryzen is trash with multiGPU systems but no one really uses multiGPU systems anymore so lucky AMD.
    • Average frame rates between Ryzen and Kaby Lake aren't something most people would care about. What matters is frame rate stability and Kaby Lake is still the king here.
    • The i7 2600k isn't really all that much worse than either processor for gaming so long you're willing to overclock it to death.
    I personally think its a no brainer if you're looking at anything i5 or lower. The Ryzen 5 set of processors just offer a whole lot more value with three times the threads and a heatsink that is three times the size of what Intel is providing.

    I've opted for the R7 1700 and I don't really miss Intel at all to be quite honest. I game at 4K resolution so I'm already GPU bottlenecked and the multitasking proposition is actually valid this time round since you've got 16 threads. I can simultaneously encode and play games...that was completely impossible with the i7 4770k I used to have.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  11. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    OK. I am a dumbass and I need help. Buying a Ryzen 5 1600X with a Gigabyte GA-AB350 motherboard. What kind of memory do I need? Are there good places to buy memory these days or should I just get it from Microcenter along with the bundle. Last time I built a computer was 10 years ago.
     
  13. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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    CAS Latency - 16
    Speed - 2666 or higher.

    Hyperx is said to be glitch free with the Ryzens.
    https://www.newegg.com/global/in/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104746&ignorebbr=1
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    thx. ordering
     
  15. Abhishek Chowdhary

    Abhishek Chowdhary Friend

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  16. Galm

    Galm Still looking for Little Red Riding Hood

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    If you havent ordered yet I'd want higher speed ram. 3200MHz really for Ryzen.

    Ryzen scales well with ram.

    Edit: the CCXs are limited in how they talk to each other by ram speed. So it'll decrease cpu latency if it's faster.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  17. Smitty

    Smitty Too good for bad vodka - Friend

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    Threadripper will be released on the 10th, should be interesting to see a) how well it performs in various benchmarks, and b) how stable the mother boards are. It would be disappointing in they run into VRM issues like X299.
     
  18. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    VRM heatsinks on the motherboards are already upgraded compared to the display ones they had at Computex, X299 definitely scared motherboard vendors into doing it.
     
  19. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I know n7 oi
     

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