Audio Zenith PMx2 Redux and Quick Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. RiddleyWalker

    RiddleyWalker Friend

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    I recently had the PMx2 loaner for a few days, so I thought I'd share some thoughts.

    My chain is Eitr -> Theta Progeny -> ZDS. My main headphones are HD650 and HE-500 (both modded).

    PMx2's tonal balance is on the warm-side of neutral. On the warmfriend scale, it goes something like HD650 > PMx2 > HE-500, potentially adding a chevron here or there depending on the gear used. The overall sound signature is really not a far cry from the HD650 and Eikon (from memory), and I imagine fans of those headphones will enjoy these as well.

    In comparison to HD650, the PMx2 has more linear bass extension and cleaner bass all around. This is most apparent on tracks that take advantage of those < 40 Hz frequencies. That said, the impact isn't quite there. The sound is more enveloping than hard-hitting, with kickdrums for example sounding a bit more blended into the overall mix than the 650. Part of this is the 650's mid-bass bump (something that becomes very evident in direct comparison) but there's also more of a sense of physical soundwave impact across the entire frequency spectrum. Your ears "feel" the sounds more on the 650, even if the quantity at a given frequency is more or less in comparison. Ultimately, I get the feeling that the PMx2 is a bit more polite; great for relaxed listening but not quite as exciting for rock-out sessions.

    The other notable difference between these two headphones is the HD650 has a more emphasized upper-midrange. This manifests itself in different ways depending on what you're listening to. It feels like sometimes the middle-mids of the PMx2 sound a little shouty, likely because of the decline in the upper-mids. The treble of the PMx2 is very smooth, clean, and well done. The HD650 treble sounds slightly grainy in comparison. However, I can't help but get the feeling that the PMx2 struggles with both airiness and micro-detail retrieval. The 650's sound more open as a whole, less congested.

    My HE-500 (with Focus-A pads) has a roughly similar frequency response to the PMx2 as well, but is slightly less emphasized in bass and mids and has a bit more treble. The HE-500's massive drivers and incredibly open back design project an image that is larger, wider, and more layered than the PMx2. However, the HE-500 doesn't have the deepest stage and can get a little hard left/right depending on recording. The PMx2's soundstage, while considerably smaller, is more coherent and not as distracting. The treble on the PMx2 is also smoother, lacking as much energy as the HE-500 in the ~10KHz range.

    In terms of comfort, I found the PMx2 to be average-ish. The pads, while comfortable, are a little snug on my slightly above average sized ears. This doesn’t present an immediate issue, but can get mildly irritating during extended sessions. I don’t think most people will have a problem with it, but thought it worth mentioning.

    Overall, despite some of the minor grievances mentioned above, I found the PMx2 to be a really enjoyable headphone. While it doesn’t have as much “wow” factor as my other headphones, it has a balanced and coherent presentation that is very agreeable for my tastes. The MSRP (~$1800) is the elephant in the room when comparing to headphones that cost ~$300-500. The question of value is unique to each individual. I will say that personally, if the price were about half of what it is, I would consider buying them.

    Special thanks to @Audio Zenith and the SBAF crew for facilitating this loaner!
     
  2. m.i.c.k.e.y

    m.i.c.k.e.y Facebook Friend

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    So aside from Ragnarok or RS-08 what other amps pairs well w/ PMx2?
     
  3. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

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    I will have forthcoming (positive) impressions from my time with the PMx2 loaner. I was using the balanced out of my Liquid Carbon and thought it was a nice pairing. Given the slight warmth to the latest iteration of the PMx2, I think some might find the combination with the Liquid Carbon a tad bit too warm or laid back, although I did not persoanlly. Very engaging and fatigue-free combination for me.
     
  4. m.i.c.k.e.y

    m.i.c.k.e.y Facebook Friend

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    Thanks Guyz! Keep it comin'.
     
  5. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    @RiddleyWalker are your impressions of PMx2 based off your ZDS? It wouldn't be a fair comparison against HD650 since ZDS and HD650 are practically made for each other, while PMx2 or HE-500 would benefit more from a high power SS amp (e.g. Jotunheim). In my experience, ZDS is less than ideal for planars.
     
  6. RiddleyWalker

    RiddleyWalker Friend

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    I also tried the PMx2 on my Vali 2 but found the combo not as good. It’s just the amps I had available at the time. The pairing might not be synergistic. But surprisingly I find the HE-500 to perform really well with the ZDS.
     
  7. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Would be interesting to hear your impressions compared to your recent ownership of a PMx2 to see if there have been any further Improvements..
     
  8. Carlos CPA

    Carlos CPA Friend

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    @Audio Zenith , have you had a chance to hear how these sound out of a Lyr 3 yet? I remember reading that you voiced the PMx2 for Ragnarok, but that Jotunheim also seemed neutral enough for your tastes.

    Any thoughts on Lyr 3, and whether there may be a tube that can be used to bring out the most neutral presentation (and best synergy) in your headphones? I am assuming the use of a new V2 (silver grille/leather pad) PMx2.
     
  9. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    DAMN, Ragnarok has taken PMx2 to the next level. Bass is more delineated and textured. It's also extracting more treble detail, somehow without skewing tone towards brightness.
     
  10. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

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    What were you pairing it with before the Rag?
     
  11. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    ADI-2 Pro: clean but lacking dynamics. A little limp dick.
    BW2: Addictive in the ways the RME is lacking but a little too rolled at the top end and bass can be bloated and one note. Too much of a good thing.
    DSHA-2: in between the two, BW2 euphony without the roll off. Pretty damn good.

    Ragnarok: A layer has seemingly been peeled off. Increased clarity, speed and resolution across the board. Leans a little towards Utopias comparative strengths, but still only gets perhaps a third of the way there. Soundstage remains unchanged, modest but reasonably spherical. Timbre still can’t compete with the better dynamics I have heard.
     
  12. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

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    Thanks. Very helpful. When you switched amps, did you continue to use the DAC section of ADI-2-Pro as your source. My inclination is to get the ADI-2-DAC and if I feel the need I can later upgrade the amp. This assumes that the DAC section is a keeper.
     
  13. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Seeing as though this is a PMx2 thread I will get back to you via PM.
     
  14. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

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    I am looking to upgrade my amp to maximize the potential of my PMx2 and was hoping to get some feedback here. My PMx2 was modified by Alex (@Audio Zenith) in early 2018 so I believe it is the latest iteration. After buying the PMx2, I purchased the ADI-2-DAC as a AIO solution. I had heard the Pro version and enjoyed it driving the PMx2 balanced. I did have an opportunity to do a side-by-side with the DAC version and decided the Pro was not a big enough upgrade for me to warrant the cost. However, after buying the ADI-2-DAC I thought the amp was only OK and was a bit disappointed. I thought the DAC and functionality were good enough though so I kept it. I ran the ADI to my Cavalli Liquid Carbon and have been using the balanced output to drive the PMx2. I feel that this was an improvement over the ADI amp, but still not optimal.


    I recently listened to the PMx2 on a Woo Audio Wa22 at a local dealer. They had been using the Woo to drive a Utopia and LCD-4, but they let me hook up my PMx2. I really enjoyed this combo. It seemed to address well the only real shortcoming to me of the PMx2, namely that the soundstage is on the intimate side. While this can will never be as spacious as a HD800, I felt that the on the Wa22 it sounded much more spacious and holographic. It did enough for me that I was perfectly satisfied with the soundstage. In fact, while the LCD-4 and Utopia were still technically better, after going back and forth among the three on that particular setup, I actually preferred the PMx2 overall.


    Shortly after this there were actually several Wa22s listed on eBay in the $1,700 range although they were mostly the Gen 1 version. I held off in part because I know so little about tube amps and was curious as to whether I could get a comparable sound in a less expensive amp as my understanding is that the general consensus is that Woo is overpriced. Also, I could not get a straight answer from the dealer as to whether the unit I was listening to was in stock form or had been upgraded. On the Woo site that amp can be upgraded with better tubes by more than $1,000. I did not want to stretch my budget only to find out I was not getting what I was expecting because the stock $2,500 turns out to not be good enough. Further, my preference if all things are equal is solid state amps since I don't like the idea of exposed tubes with 2 crazy cats running around our apartment.


    Subsequently, I received the Lyr 3 loaner. I really liked that amp and it seemed like a significant improvement over my Liquid Carbon and is a definite upgrade option for me. However, I did not think it was a magical giant killer either and was no match for the Wa22. At 5x the price (or more if there were upgrades), the Woo should be better but one can always hope that the much cheaper option holds its own.


    I know that Alex had tuned the PMx2 with the Rag in mind so that seems like a good option. But I would prefer something smaller and the Rag does not have a remote control (neither does the Woo) while some other SS options do. The other powerful SS amps I am considering are the ifi Ican Pro and one of the Phonitor models -- 2, X or E. My budget is max of $2,500 so if the Woo in stock form is what I heard or close to it I can do that. But my preference would be a SS option and a little cheaper would be preferred.


    While I can run the PMx2 off my phone, it is quite clear that it likes a lot of power. One of the things I did not know was whether the soundstage improvement I was hearing on the Woo was more a function of power (my LC is not that powerful even when running balanced) or the tube topology. My understanding is the Ican Pro and the Phonitor models are all pretty powerful. So, maybe one of those will be sufficient. But perhaps I just prefer the tube sound or tubes are better at opening up the soundstage.


    Any advice or recommendations are appreciated. Open to suggestion other than the amps listed above.


    TLDR: Looking to upgrade my Cavalli Liquid Carbon primarily for use with my Audio Zenith PMx2. Currently considering Woo Audio Wa22, ifi Ican Pro and Phonitor X, E or 2. Open to other suggestions.
     
  15. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    If I were you, I would wait for the upcoming Cavalli/Monolith Liquid Platinum.
     
  16. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    The Yggdrasil, Ragnarok and PMx2 is pretty mind blowing. I also enjoyed PMx2 with Gilmore Lite mk2 as it plays to the headphones strengths, although it seemed a little veiled (compared to Rag) and didn’t quite achieve the same levels of clarity. If I was still in the game I would definitely consider the upcoming Headamp GSX Mini.
     
  17. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I have the PMx2 on loan, the v.2.0 version and I agree with the assesment...neutral, relaxed, and one of the better planars if not the best I have heard. No harshness in high mids like LCD-2 Classic, no high peaky treble like HE-500, the bass is much more controlled and even than modded T-50's.

    The thing that strikes me is that the transients come through, not plankton, just stuff like cymbal hits, taps, guitar picking, that makes them sound lively, but still have a neutral tuning and everything is very well controlled. I am a drummer, and this has the most natural cymbals I have heard and sound like actual cymbals - nothing fake or plastic going on hear. The timbre is by far the best I have heard.

    I also agree with @Hands that HD650 can out-detail them and likely give more to soundstage, however if you want a nice relaxing headphone that still gives you ortho quickness and ortho bass with super natural timbre, this is the stuff.

    I will also agree with @jowls that Gilmore Lite MK2 is a good pairing if you want more of that planar bass and would play well if you had a a lean DAC. The Gilmore made the bass looser and fuller and making the transients even softer. It could be too much relaxed amp + relaxed HP, but with my Theta DAC pairing was not too bad, especially for harsh recordings or EDM.

    MJ1 seemed super bright at first and made the low end much more controlled and tight. However, once I settled in after a day or so, it is an amazing pairing. Still might be on the brighter side to some since the bass is not as powerful, but brings out details and better technicalities of the music for sure.

    This HP does bring out a lot of personality of the amp and source. Synergy is probably important here that other headphones.
     
  18. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I just acquired Marv's old pair with the velour pads and I wanted to address this question.

    It seems that many of these Oppo PM series headphones have flaking on the headband and the earpads. Alex from Audio Zenith suggests using 303 Protectant spray. High dollar stuff, but well worth it from keep from buying a new headband or pads.

    For the velour pads, Alex suggests, "cleaning velour portions of the earpads with Scotch lint remover (mainly for degreasing) and if needed one could also clean velour with small amounts of warm soapy water and toothbrush. This should prevent from odor and oiling."

    It is also confirmed that the Audio Zenith modified headphones pads are sealed in and not very replaceable.

    The cup padding seems to be some kind of gel memory foam and should last many years. So mostly care needs to be taken to the exterior materials. I think 303 will also work for other faux leather headphones as well to keep them fresh and new and keep them from the dreaded crack and flake disease.
     
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  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I just realized I need to autograph everything I once owned or measured.
     
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  20. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    This is a garbage post, but I was amused by this:
    I was flipping through some construction magazines in the lunchroom today and was very confused when I saw this in the title... https://junttan.com/product/pmx2e/
     

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