The One and Only Big D Thread

It's been a lot of stress and fun at the same time trying to get a stereo system completed to the final stage. Some are never done. I am going to build this thread out starting this weekend. I have a meeting tomorrow and will get started on it thereafter. What you will witness is a royal pain in the ass. I waited for 5 years to finally pull the plug and buy components that would finish the Martin Logan ESL and subwoofer system. Not so easy, and very hard to keep the costs down, once you get started. In the end.... I'm retired........... waited 5 years to finish it and spend the bankroll involved with separete amp, preamp, DAC, and the like. 5 years ago I bought Martin Logan Electromotion ESLs, Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 subwoofer, and a Chinese Tube amp called Quinpu MK6000. 15watts RMS/ch. Great smooth sound. But this is not what the Martin Logans were built for.

They need a pretty much 2ohm stable, can do with a 4ohm stabe amp and lots of dynamic current to have the attack of transients to come alive. As you will see in my trails and tribulations to get the equipment needed to get the system done and tuned to work as a cohesive unit is a story that is fun and awkward at the same time.

Here is a pic before I retire tonight of the system in it's current setup.......


The current amplifier is a Krell KST-100A Class A amplifier

Sold my Vincent SP-331 today. Happy about that. Got $140 more than I paid for it.

The cable that I recieved with my Krell was so thin that the amp would be sure to burn up. I have the NuPrime STA-9 cable connected to it, and it won't reach my outlet, so I have a HD extension cord for now. I ordered a 10 foot 12awg HD Cord from Mercury Magnetics in California for the final product. Should be here next week. I expect better transfer of power from the outlet to the Krell with the cable. The Krell dims the lights every time I press the "On" button. What is inside that thing, I have yet to take off the cover, but there seems to be a monster in there. Hopefully I can get the sound the way I want it to and all will be well in the Livingroom.

I want to thank the staff for taking out the time to put this into a thread for me.

I know I'm small potatoes in a sea of people that have know each other for a long time. Putting up with me is a very nice gesture, and I will not forget how patient the staff at SBAF has been with me.

 

Initial impressions....?

 

@Big D Design , I haven't owned full range speakers for 25 years, but I thought that putting things in between speakers screws up the soundstage. Shouldn't the subs be on the perimeter?

EDIT: should add that it looks like a nice setup

 

I'm going in for another listen in about 30 minutes. Yesterday I got the REL S3 adjusted properly for the Krell. Every time a new amplifier is introduced, the gain is different, and the subs have to be readjusted. Took a better part of a day to fine tune my subwoofers. Anyway, I will have a better impression tonight when I go in for a listen.

 

You have a system made up of great individual parts, Big D. It will be interesting to hear how you bring it all together.

 

I have always preferred the result of subwoofers on the inside myself. A lot depends on what you are trying to get out of your subwoofer. Using my subs on the inside fills up the middle of the presentation with low end authority. I am only 7 feet away from the speakers. Putting them on the outside of me would make for a larger soundstage, but I am already very close to the speakers and it would be wasted pushing past me. I have seen many with the same setup as mine. To not overpower the volume of the subs is key.

Here is some initial observations of the Krell KST-100 amplifier.....

It runs 50 watts Class A at 8 ohms and the Martin Logan ESLs run at 6 ohms so that would be probably 75 watts/ch. Then it goes to what a typical switching amp does and goes Class B for the rest of the power envelope of about 150 watts/ch at 6ohms for the Martins. Most of the time I am listening in Class A. That would be a realistically loud presentation of the recording.

The Krell KST-100 shows promise. It is full sounding with more bass extension than the other amps that I have tried. Instruments like guitar and piano are much more realistic in sound, body, timbre and decay after the note is played. It is very evident how well the Krell conveys instruments. Voices Male and Female are a different story. With the Freya..... there are 3 settings Passive, JFET and Tube. By going thru each one you can get a feel for the amplifier. Right now I don't have a magic wand for the voices of Male and Female, and the Tube setting with the tubes I have inserted now can have too much bloom along with the Krell amp. The Passive setting really reveals what the Krell KST-100 is all about with it's pants down. How good is it like that? Quite good. I could listen to the Passive setting on all my favorite songs and be happy with the sound. Do I think that better sound can be had? Hell yea. The lively sound of the NuPrime STA-9 has shown that even better sound is possible. I still haven't finished adjusting the REL S3 subs to the excellent bass extension with the Krell KST-100 amp. What I did tonight was turn down the subs to listen to the Martin Logans with hardly any sub at all. This would give a basline of what the Krell is doing. Then I changed the cables back to the AudioQuest Evergreen cables to see what the sound was like with the Krell with the AudioQuest Evergreen cables. The result was interesting........... Voices were stable in the soundstage.... perfectly in place. Voices had a good timbre and the sound of male voices (I didn't try female) was pleasing to the ear. The guitar and piano was lacking like you couldn't believe. The AudioQuest Evergreen could not hold a candle to the cheap $49 Morrow Audio cables. This was not a horse race. The AudioQuest never got out of the gate. The problem with finishing my system is twofold. The Morrow Audio cables that I'm using now only contains 2 runs of their solid copper wire. I have ordered their MA4 Reference cables (2 sets) that will have 24 runs of their solid copper wire. These cables are the ones that Absolute Sound liked. I will get them already broken in as well. They have a service that you can pay extra for break-in and they put the cables on this power wall and buzz them for days. Well I got in on a deal that I got the buzz-in for free. So judgement day and final adjustment won't commence till I receive the Reference cables. Then I can adjust my subwoofers accordingly, and see where I can take the system with the new Krell amplifier. Pain in the ass..... Yes......... Cost for cables expensive........... I've seen a lot worse.......

I like the Krell. It sounds great. Very pleased. Hope it holds up. It is not a new amplifier.... It was just serviced, but once again there is risks taken with used equipment. I am keeping the NuPrime STA-9 for that very reason. If anything happens to the Krell..... I can easily substitute the NuPrime STA-9 in it's place.

I wonder...... would Gungnir Multibit open up the sound now?

Or would some tube rolling find some magic with a little luck?

My biggest worry is working with older equipment. I paid $1,360.00 shipped for the Krell KST-100. If it holds up, it will be a dream of mine to own a Krell that I have had for over 30 years. Now I have one. Let's all huddle together and put so good juju on this amp, and let it last for me. It runs so hot you could heat a room with it. That's Class A back in the Nineties. That's all for now. It's a keeper. It's just not in finish mode yet. The beat goes on.

 

Personally, I would optimize the speaker placement sans sub. When you're happy with the sound, then add/augment with the sub.

Mark/measure the speakers location where they sound the best with the NuPrime, then add the sub. Wash, rinse, repeat with the Krell. Just make sure you can replicate speaker placement with reasonable accuracy.

I've not heard your DAC, but I would consider other options before blowing money on cables. Use whatever you have lying around, or just get some Mogami. Your fascination with cables is misplaced. I'd spend my time and money elsewhere.

 

I agree with this. You can even ditch the REW software if you get a DBX Venu active crossover which can have 14 different filters to correct for all sorts of stuff- far superior to the Behringer DCX2496 (I own both).


@Big D Design I see you finally hear what true bass extension sounds like.

 

Also I'd say it's dangerous spending big money on cables before the rest of the system is completely settled. Like changing tubes it's a tweak that can push your system that last bit in a particular direction. If the rest of your chain is a bit too bright they can tone it down a bit. If a bit too rolled off they can brighten it up. But it is all dependent on everything else. If you spend loads of money (and personally I would never spend THAT much money) on cables which sound good with the Modi Multibit, say, then you may find yourself unhappy with the frequency balance if you then in get in a Gungnir Multibit. Of course, you are welcome to spend your money as you will but I would suggest to get to where you want to with ALL of the rest of the system before thinking about cables.

 

You room seems to have quite a lot of hard reflective surfaces. How about adding a thick rug to the floor to absorb some reflections?
Dailing in in dual subs without measuring equipement will be very hard... like others suggested here time to start using REW too see what your system and room is doing, before doing a lot of system "upgrades". The room dictates a lot more than you think.

 

Thanks for all you input people......

@fishski13
"I would optimize the speaker placement sans sub. When you're happy with the sound, then add/augment with the sub."
That's what I was working on last night. Getting a feel for the Krell without the subs. I changed the toe-in a couple of degrees and got out my flashlight and did the flashlight into the Martin Logan thing that they recommend. The NuPrime liked the Martins toed out just a few degrees more than the flashlight dictated.

@zerodeefex
I have my room dampened just the way I want it to be. There are no sound reflections anywhere. A mic could help, for sure and all the stuff like that I do with the car stereo. Nah. This is much easier.

My take on what is going on at this time is this...........
1 -- The system can be dialed in at this time to sound fantastic by anyone's standards.
I really don't need to do anything but wait for my MA4 Reference cables to come, and my 10ft Power Cord.
2 -- I would put my bottom dollar on all I need is the proper interconnect. Maybe better DAC. Job done. Peroid.
3 -- Are the MA4 Reference cables the right ones? Who knows. The sound is there in spades.
I just had the NuPrime STA-9 dialed in. And that was like pulling teeth because I was so stubborn and didn't want to get rid of the balanced connection. When I went to RCA connection from Freya to the NuPrime amp. All problems went away and the Morrow Audio MA1 cables brought the system to a finished product.
4 -- The Krell will bring more to the table, and it won't take anything more than cable matching
5 -- With the Krell, I could use a more revealing top end, I think, not sure about that
6 -- I do thank all for pointing out things..... this is down to a "tweak" job and possibly DAC change. That's it. Fat Lady is singing very soon
"Poleepka" There are no hard refective surfaces in that room. Shag carpet, a shitload of teddy bears, all kinds of dampening material.

These Morrow Audio MA4 Reference Cables are a giant wager on my part. I used to live where you could go home with a few sets and try them out. If they trusted you at the audio salon or put down a deposit of some kind. Years ago I ended up having a dozen sets of audiophile cables to tune livingrooms with me when it was time to setup a clients system. Mix and match was sometimes what worked the best.

The cables are the biggest gamble of my whole system. There is no 60 return with them, due to their trade-up program. I'm trading my MA1 RCAs for MA4 RCAs. I got 55% off the price. But no 60 day return. Works out in the end to about a $400 gamble. If they don't make good music for me. Maybe someone else would like to buy them from me. I got the Vincent sold. Lucky so far.

On a side note.......
I just can't get over how well the Krell portrays piano and guitar. The Baby Grand piano sounds very much in the room with instant decay of keystrokes and a fullness that is much improved in weight over the NuPrime. The guitar has the same effect. I don't know if you guys know Michael Hedges, or Jamey Johnson. Acoustic guitar genius. Krell has added better sound to electric guitar as well.

More later......
I am changing back from the AudioQuest Evergreens today to the Morrow Audio MA1s. They sound better. Really can't do much more tweaking till new cables arrive. Could be still a couple of weeks to be built.

I also have switched back in the stock tubes I got with the Freya to do baseline measurements and tube roll from there over the new few days. I don't like to make changes without listening for quite a few hours in between. Gives me time to acclimate to the sound.

About 15 more minutes of warm-up and I'm back listening. Time for some Counterstrike.

GOOD NEWS!!

The stock tubes that I put back in made the system sound perfect. I mean just the way big daddy wanted the system to improve. Sometimes it's that simple. I was tired last night, freakin' exhausted. Today with the stock tubes I went into the livingroom with 40 minutes of equipment warmup....... weeeee. Real HiFi Sound. I can now relax till I get more stuff in the mail. The REL S3 subs seem to be adjusted pretty darn close to optimum, if not perfect. What a difference. I could not believe it, I mean really what a difference in imaging.... A LARGE DIFFERENCE..... spot on perfection. Going for the expensive cheesesteak now to celebrate.

 

What do you use for a source, Big D?

 

Surface 4 clone (Acer Aspire Switch Alpha 12) running Win10 Groove Music program playing FLAC files >USB to Modi Multibit (AudioQuest USB cable)>Freya>Krell

I'm buying a Tascam CD-200 CD Transport as soon as a credit shows up with stuff I sent back to them. I have Morrow Audio making me a Reference 3 Coax cable to go from the transport to the Modi Multibit. I have quite a few Redbook CDs. Would make for some fun. I have the credit anyway.

I really see RasberryPi is going off the chain now. Bryston even has a unit now. I guess there is some merit to going into DAC with Coax with one of these, for sure. Could be a project for the fall. I don't want to build it myself. I would have someone do it for me.

 

I've been interested in the Raspberry Pi for some time. I don't have much of the DIY gene, I guess. @Kattefjaes thread has inspired me to do one in the future.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-syncing-from-jriver-to-wm1a-or-similar.3812/

 

My Krell throws some heat. I will be posting about how I am going to deal with that in the next few posts. I am building a bridge over the Krell.
The Schiit products don't seem to cook eggs on top. What the hell, my Krell does......
Go figure.

I have some good stuff coming about the build itself and where it's going. Getting pics and storyline together this weekend.

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It's my birthday on Monday. The Big 60. No parties. When I turned 50... same shit. Guess I don't rate. Lazy freakin' wife I rekon at 50.
Now girlfriend of 7 years has an excuse. Just got out of ICU in the hospital a month ago.

Do I really care? Hell no. That shit is for chicks.

Actually, I'm lying..... I went to this family party on the wife's side of the family (Father In-Law) that was celebrity driven..... it was freakin' good time for my Father In-Law's 50th. Big fun with that bunch of celebrity culture all around you and DJ music blasting. Yea, it was fun. No way I'm ever going to see that kind of back yard shenanigans. I could care less about the celebrities personally.............. it was just a freakin' fun birthday party. That's why I'm jealous.

Stay tuned.

Thanks to the SBAF community for giving me the chance to tickle the fancy of some of your readers.......

Went back for a listen to the system this evening.....

STILL IS ABSOLUTELY PERFECT!!

I have yet to crank up the Krell KST-100 amplifier yet to see what kind of meat it has. Bought that 10ft HD 12awg cable and feel it's a safe bet to wait to I have proper draw from outlet to amplifier. In the Krell manual, they mention stuff like that, and they seem very serious about that. I have a 9 ft extension from the outlet to the 5' NuPrime cord. The guy sent me something so thin, what a joke that was. Was hoping for this thick monster in the box. Yea right. He probably had an aftermarket esoteric one that he sure wasn't gonna give me.

Sometimes the rest of the family is all the way at the other end of the home. I can crank it up in spurts then. They can hear it, for sure. But they tolerate some short REALLY LOUD because they know it puts a shit eatin' grin that lasts for hours on my face. Cord is in the mail from Cali.

We have concerts 1/2 mile away from us all the time with lots of the old time stars of yesteryear in an open Amphitheater. John Fogerty sounded real good from my lawn a few months ago. Sound travels with the onshore ocean wind to my humble abode sometimes where I can hear the songs. Lots of noise allowed around these parts. Harley bike weeks, Muscle cars and Ricers. I just stand outside on a Friday night and within a minute there is someone flooring their machine to the max. 20 seconds later comes the next two of em'. Great place to be a car guy. I'm heavily into Car Stereo. Cops don't mind my loud cars, but do not like loud stereos. I have to be careful when cranking and where to do it. Kind of like speeding.

Back to the Krell KST-100. How powerful is it going to be? I listen mostly at levels that sound natural to the recording. And a lot of recordings I listen to in the home is easy listening. The car is for the more upbeat stuff. There was a time in my youth that the cops would visit quite regularly for a volume decrease of my stereo system, Then a brochure was made with a pic of my house stating "This house could be next to yours, at all times of the day and night......blah, blah, blah". All of us 5 that lived there got quite a kick out of the brochure. Fun times. Never get old. You lose some of the octane in your gas.

Monday Feb. 27......
Got my heavy duty 10' cable in today for the Krell. It's so much thicker and it reaches the outlet properly. Should do the trick. For anyone interested in a cool red monster..... here's some info $25


More tubes came in the mail. These are 6SN7GTB Top Getter Chrome Top Standard Size from 1950 in very good condition. Don't know what Top Getter even means. Cost $25/tube and is a matched set. Pic below. Nice little birthday presents for me.


Here is my matched set of 4 6SN7GTB Chrome Top Standard Size tubes. Forget the dates on these ones. These were $17.50/tube. I know this tube stuff can be a money pit. I just wanted to have a small batch of tubes to play with in my yard. I'm stilll a boy you know. At least I'm not buying makeup or shoes. Pic below.....


I'm up to a 12 or 14 now and I will say that tube shopping is done for quite a while. Bought some stupid Russian tubes for $30 that are coming in the mail yet. I just wanted them for my collection as a conversation piece. I like how the Freya tubes are man size. Compensates for some of us, just cool for others. I have seen prices of these tubes go up, and some guys want a fortune. Beware. Ebay is a gamble, but that's where you can find the diamonds in the rough.

I'm not doing any tube rolling for a while. Just so glad how well the Big D Livingroom system sounds. I made a check yesterday of subwoofer adjustments. I would shut one off and play. Found 2 clicks on right sub less volume needed. Left sub was perfect. I pay careful attention as to the exact volume setting, so as to go back if need be. Just makes for less headaches and more accuracy. Probably going to do a 2:00pm listen and see that new Heavy Duty Mercury Magnetics 10" Power Cord go to work on that electric bill producing Krell KST-100. It's worth it. Sounds killer.

I have upgrade my mood colors to 3 now for the Livingroom System.....
Blue
Green
Amber
Blue using 3 sets of Blue LED aquarium lights encased in a nice waterproof shell with suction cups. Inexpensive and quality built. I found this the best bet for LED mood lighting. I have the Blue LED set on a Remote that controls five devices. Lights in Livingroom are button presses away at entrance.
Green and Amber is using another 3 sets of RGB aquarium lights similar to the Blue system. But with it's own remote control, and a whole lot of options. You could actually have blinking disco if you wanted, but I don't want that in my setting. There are other colors, but they seem to not to be of my liking or are kind of washed out. The RGB system costs more, and doesn't do the Blue any where near the straight out of the box Blue LED lights.
Here's some pics of it. The amber is much more pronounced than my Windows Phone is showing. Company that makes these is Mingdak out of China.