Burst Response! HD800, SR-207, HD650

Discussion in 'Measurement Techniques Discussion' started by purr1n, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Munich, Germany
    Now THAT is more like it.
    That's true. There was a ton of noise with the 10kHz burst files. And the ones on the head had a lot of 50Hz hum which can be seen in the slight "DC" shift.

    It's good to see that even the ones on the head (with a lot of weird reflections and weird phase stuff) match up so nicely. |\/|
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Looks like the results nailed it. Seems the sample rate conversions in Octave might have been mucking things up a bit with the earlier set (as you mentioned, there was a time shift which was pretty obvious, and decimation was probably not the way to go). The potentially great thing about this is that existing the IR sets can be used to process tones to create other visualizations! Now whether these visualizations would mean anything is another matter.
     
  3. JohnM

    JohnM Author of REW - Rando

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Understood. I have a personal aversion to what I perceive as a modern tendency to treat matters of fact as simply suggestions that can be ignored, modified or contradicted according to taste, so I try to avoid an impression of ambiguity around basic underlying principles. I am more than happy to qualify things when I'm expressing opinion or conjecture though, which given the limitations of my knowledge, is admittedly most of the time :)
     
  4. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Irvine CA
    I understand the aversion. When dealing with marketing and management this can be frustrating. IMO this is not new. I can only imagine how things would go down when having a discussion with a king or queen who fancies himself or herself god-like. None of that here.

    I do understand what you are saying, and I will try to avoid using "maybe" as a qualifier for something that I know is a definition.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    OK, so enough of this the nonsense in the past few days. I was working on this a a few months ago but had to stop because other things came up. This is the kind of stuff I am most interested in. New ways of seeing information. These are 1kHz bursts responses calculcated from the headphone impulse responses. Based on what was discussed in this thread, and @ultrabike's simulations in that super-math software package being very close to measured reality burst responses, I figured I would explore this further. So I wrote an IR convolution routine for the existing data sets.

    Again, these are 1kHz bursts, a succession of three sine waves, plotting the absolute number value to create a better visualization (so we don't have to look at top peaks and bottom peaks). One thing I have not done is write a routine to normalize the values to the same level, but this should be easy. I just wanted to show you guys how I think and what I've been doing. Do I think there is some correlation from these plots to how we hear transients on these headphones? Yes, quite a high correlation in fact. Just something to chew on.

    burst response.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  6. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

    Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,000
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tempe, Arizona
    Wow, so my non expertise breakdown ignoring amplitude differences:

    Ether C and Susvara, both planars, take one cycle to get into "the swing of things" so to speak. They are slow to respond with the initial sine wave but recover and level off after. Also shows typical planar decay with residual settling.

    HD650 and Auteur are both quick to reach the max amplitude and maintain that level until the signal is stopped with less fuss, although you can see Auteur damping taking longer to stop.

    Elex is an interesting one, and probably explains why Focal's with their speaker like properties are so dynamic. That initial sine wave almost looks like overshoot but could also explain why the Focal's sound so dynamic. Also interesting to note the longer settling time, even more so than Auteur. It would be neat to see how Utopia fairs with the same stimulus.
     
  7. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    purr1n could you show us the original waveform being fed to the HP's?

    Thanks JJ
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX

    It's just a three burst sine wave at 1kHz. LOL, I never thought ot superimposing. Great idea! Whipped up some code. The original waveform is in blue.

    burst game.png

    Let's play a guessing game. Two expensive headphones from major well known manufacturers. One is very dynamic sounding headphone with fast transient response that takes off and stops on a dime. The other is a slower more romantic sounding headphone that also has some balls. Which is which? What are the headphones? Both are traditional dynamic driver headphones.

    For the STEM guys, I made sure the convolution started at exactly two samples before the peak. In any event, shifting the start of the processing window to a later sample in the IR ruins the shape output (for obvious reasons if we think about it).
     
  9. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    Thanks for the rapid reply.

    Um, maybe I'm missing something or assuming too much here, but…

    Those traces don't look like sine waves but more like 1/2 sinewaves (only the + half of the wave form).
    Which was my subsequent question, do these signals pass thru 0 volts and deliver both + & - going wave forms to the drivers?


    JJ
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    They are sine waves run through an ABS function.
     
  11. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

    Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,000
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tempe, Arizona
    So each bump is actually a half cycle? That does make it easier to visualize how the drivers respond, nice!
     
  12. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Australia
    Don't know much about this stuff, but I'd like to learn!

    Would it be true to say that the closer the original waveform and the measured waveform the better the transient response? If so, I'd guess the top one is something like an LCD2 and the bottom is a HD800.

    The original waveform looks something like the output from a full wave rectified, unfiltered power supply. Is that right?
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    CORRECTION: Bottom on is Focal Utopia. Top is Sony Z1R.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  14. L'Orfeo

    L'Orfeo MoatsArt the Second

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Australia
    hahaha! I'm a retarded turd! How do you read these things? LCD2 isn't dynamic anyway!
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Hey, I don't either! We learn by looking at a lot of plots and see if any patterns correlate to what we hear. We do not measure for the sake of measuring!
     
  16. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    So is that 'uniform' delay in the Utopias response a measurement artifact?

    JJ
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Doh. Reversed order! I just corrected the post. (It was a test to see if you were paying attention!)
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    Interesting that the planar magnetic drivers continue to vibrate while the dynamic drivers dampen rather quickly. I would think it would be the opposite since the flimsy membrane in a planar doesn't seem to be very elastic compared to dynamic assembly.

    I'd like to see <100Hz burst response if you can.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  19. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    So the Sony's have the uniform delay?

    JJ
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Yup

    Depends upon the planar. Will do on < 100Hz, which will have higher resolution results. I didn't want to write a sinc interpolation function yet for the 1kHz and higher frequencies.
     

Share This Page