Could you help me choose new hps+amp/dac within buget-friendly limits?

First of all, I should properly greet everyone as I am fairly new here. I must say I'd been pretty straightforward about what to pick...before I boarded this journey towards reading head-fi comments and most of the accessible reviews I could find. Now it feels like nothing is really certain, I don't really know what's what anymore and I'm probably more confused than ever. Heck, I just thought "hey,I'll just get an M2 stack, in the worst scenario it should at least handle anything, right?", and now there's a whole new universe of possibilities I had never even considered, on top of the fact that I'm apparently looking for new headphones too !
Anyway, I've realized long posts didn't have any success on head-fi so I'll compress it as much as I can.

Now the obvious example: people telling me the DT-990 is a really above mid-tier pair, and it does more than respectable in every category, which really made me think I can finally get something neutral with refined bass and details in such a good budget, until someone else comes in and says they're too hot, the treble is way too aggressive for someone who's not experienced and so on. So I hope you get the idea.
The last thing I want to underline is that I've never quite managed to understand this contrast: is it better to get costly headphones, because they offer much more future potential, or rather invest in a better amp/dac as they could bring out more out of something which costs less but fares well ? Also a lot of split opinions on this one.
I really hope the post doesn't suggest an ignorant attitude, I've really tried getting a grasp on the knowledge base needed to comprehend everything, it's just that I haven't found newbie-friendly articles explaining circuitry, technical details, sheet data analysis etc. quite clear. A lot of people seem to talk about capacitor X type is better than Y type, this model has these worse capacitors and so on. As I can't understand this technical aspect, I've just based it off what people have expressed about sound.

Since this post is already longer than it should be, sound-wise, I thought I'd just give you a few examples of what songs I would typically like to enjoy. Emphasis would be neutral, slightly warm is also well appreciated, I don't want muddy bass or anything which makes it too pronounced, but I do want to feel its presence and prefer it refined and controlled, and I hope you could suggest me something with good width and depth to the soundstage, being able to pick up orchestral details clean would be amazing. If you really have some spare minutes, these would be a good indicator of what I listen to: the cinematic orchestra (any),SuperFlu and Dortmunder Philharmonics- Volkwein, MK Remix- my head is a jungle, Robin Schulz(any), Chopin (any) and most of the well known sonatas. Again, I know top tier hps are made for this and it's probably out of my buget, but if there's something fitting above decent I would be eager to know !

The setups I've summed up after some tough weeks of pondering:
N.b: I currently own a pair of X1s, tried them with an usb soundcard (which disappointed me) so went back to Asus' onboard sound. These have been really enjoyable for the past 2 years, although it feels like the sound could be clearer; I enjoy the bass as well, though it wouldn't hurt being more refined, so I'm wishing to get a proper setup.
Headphones: DT-990 Ed. 600Ohm, HD650. I was really pondering whether to consider HD700, T90 and HE-400i but after reading so many reviews I'm confused, I'm not sure if those higher budget ones are a good idea if I can't afford 1000$ amps for them. I really want to point out that I would really prefer a sturdy build with comfort being a priority mainly because it's a huge investment I would definitely not want to waste, I did have quite a few plastic ones which eventually broke (not from dropping or something like that, but it feels like stretching them over my head put a lot of pressure on the material), which is why I chose X1 and stayed away from HD650/598.
Amp/DAC: Asgard/M2U, the Element, Matrix M-Stage hpa-3, A20 sh with a cheap dac I suppose.

Please let me know if the post is way too long and I'll do my best to cut out whatever I can! And lastly, really appreciate criticism if you feel any statement is wrong, but I'm hoping that you can keep it polite. Thank you !
Edit: I forgot to mention, if possible, something at least semi-open. Isolation isn't a necessity (home use).
~typos.

 

Hi @8man ! Don't worry about your post being long -it is fine. The more info you can give the better we can try to help you out! I'll give you my opinion and I am sure others will chime in as well with their picks and then you can decide what would work best for you.

Firstly, what budget are you looking at here? As in what price-range do you want to be in?

As for headphones you mentioned the HD650's. Great headphones, and a lot of members here really like them including myself. The are a bit dark but not too dark, have a decent sound stage and are open-back. If you have the budget for them - I don't think you can go wrong with HD650's. You may even be able to get a good used pair or find a nice Christmas discount on them, eBay also has good deals on cans.

Amp - Schiit Valhalla 2 if it is in your budget and you want a tube amp. It is not your typical tube amp as it is clear and resolving with great sound quality - not as warm as most tube amps but more towards neutral. An excellent match for the semi-dark HD650's.

DAC - Schiit Bifrost or Schiit Bifrost Multibit if it is within your budget. The Bifrost Multibit is about the best value you can get for the price. Lots of goodness in the Bifrost Multibit.

These are just initial suggestions as I do not know what your budget is or what you are looking to spend money-wise. The picks I posted above I think would give you a great setup for a great price - especially if you can find deals. If your budget is on the lower side, there are plenty of really good alternatives for DACs, amps, and headphones that we can give you suggestions on that will fit into your budget.

In my opinion, you should allocate the most of your budget towards headphones first, then work from there.

After you can post what price range you can spend, we can help narrow down some great options for you. That's what this site is about, people here know audio gear and will help you. I am not as smart with gear as some of the other members, so they will probably have better suggestions than me, but like I said, post what price range you are in and I am sure you will get solid advice on what you can get in your price range that will give you the best sound for your money.

 

Well there would be two things I've kinda' omitted to avoid extending the post, one of them would be that getting gear from the U.S. is quite stressful. I live in EU, and even if I find these super prices in U.S., duty tax would additionally charge me close to half of their value (even for used gear, it's applied out of the MSRP)...so I guess that limits my choices.
Regarding the budget, to be quite honest, I was planning to not go overboard, but I've reached the conclusion that if I can get something future-proof, it's better than regretting it next year. From what I've read a lot of people even managed to keep their headgear for more than a few years, so that was reassuring.
Anyway, taking both into consideration, I'm hoping to get a good setup for 750 eur +/- (if there's a good reason to make it last much longer, I am willing to stretch it a bit). Thanks a lot for the feedback, I'm also siding along focusing on getting reliable headphones, as they're the ones holding the potential !

Edit: unfortunately Bifrost Multibit doesn't seem to be available in the EU store.

 

ok So you want to be around 750 euros which is approx. $813 US dollars at the current exchange rate, you can get a really nice setup for that. Like I said in my above post, I would allocate the majority of your budget for headphones.

Base on my picks above:

Headphones: HD650 - $382.44USD + Free shipping at amazon http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-650-Professional-Headphone/dp/B00018MSNI

DAC: Schiit Modi 2 - $99USD at http://schiit.com/products/modi-2

AMP: Schiit Asgard 2 - $249USD at http://schiit.com/products/asgard-2

Grand Total - $730.44USD (691.18 Euro)

This is just a basic idea for your budget, plenty of options out there and I am sure others will chime in with their suggestions.

 

Sturdy build, future proof, your budget = HD650. For music you listed this is TOTL can.
Sadly you have to spend quite a bit in the chain before it's potential opens fully up. Like Alchemist said many here have stoped at HD650 for good reasons.

Price 319 € in thomann.de http://www.thomann.de/de/sennheiser_hd650_hifi_kopfhoerer.htm

What other HP-s have you tried or heard and what did you like/dislike about them?

 

@Priidik I'll start with the latter statement as it's easier. Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity of trying too many of them. I've been really interested in the DT-990s but beyers are nowhere to be found in stores. I've tried Q701, MDR-1A, HD598, HD518. The Q701's seemed really pleasant to hear, but with a tint of subjectivity they seemed really warm, and well-suited for folk or tracks involving a lot of acoustic guitars, couldn't make a clear opinion about their soundstage; the MDR-1A had astonishing vocal presence, but I didn't feel any bass at all, soundstage seemed only detailed on the forward scene; HD598 sounded really pleasant overall, but again I felt like there was no bass, and maybe it's just my impression but I felt they could have also been much better if they were more detailed and had a sturdy build- they felt shaky; also 518 doesn't seem worth mentioning since the 598s seemed to manage everything better.

I'm really worried about the HD650, it kinda disappoints me that Sennheiser went for plastic all over the place. My impression is that they seem to make clampy phones, so I'm afraid that the plastic might just give up after a while (598s seem to stretch a lot on my head, and I'm also afraid of carrying them in my backpack when I go home for holidays). Do you guys think their plastic build can hold in the long run ? The plastic bars holding the cans also seem really thin.

@purrin would you be able to give me a few examples of the genres they would be suited for ? I'm wondering if their treble can really be a problem like people have been suggesting. They seemed to intrigue me a lot because the general opinion is that they're really analytical and offer great details, also refined bass.

@The Alchemist I've really thought a lot about the Asgard2/M2, I've been suggested they are really nice for dark headphones because they have a slight warmth.

Also, what do you guys think about the Element ? It seemed like a really good price for their positive reviews (and THAT KNOB!).

Sorry for the excess of details, but as I've mentioned, with my history on plastic builds, involving a lot of plastic usage always gets me worried.

Edit: Oh, is it still worth considering the HD700s ? I'm thinking they require high-end amps.
By the way, @purrin your review on the m9,element etc. series has been invaluable, thank you for doing that !

 

I read the respective reviews earlier today, but sadly I don't have the right knowledge to interpret those measurement charts, so I sticked to the obvious- sound impressions. Since HD650s share a warm tonality, aren't neutral amps the way to go here ? Or does it not matter what you get, as long as it doesn't emphasize anything in particular ? That's why I thought the Element might be the perfect fit for them. I've read headfonia's review as well, it quite fits your description nicely! Another thing, isn't controlled bass a good feature to have for them?
I'm also surprised about Vali being recommended for these, I thought it only fits under the buget category to say the least .

Sidenote: I actually thought that height adjustment band is plastic, not metal, that's good to know at least.
I'm glad I've gotten a lot of detailed feedback this fast, amazing !

 

Ok, I'll need to look into something with the "energetic" tag. Anyhow, I doubt I can find anything else than solid states in this range, now I can only rate them by taking popularity into account, since I can't find reviews of lesser known brands. Setup-wise I think I'll have to choose between Vali/Asgard2 and the Element; from what I've seen, tube amps seem to be in the higher price range. The closest that comes to mind would be Valhalla2, with the only mention that I'd need a pretty cheap DAC. Have you ever tried it personally ?
Thank you very much for your time by the way, I can see you're a really busy person judging by those complicated measurements !

Update: Thought I'd post one. Damn, people seem to use really heavy equipment, most of the amps recommended for HD650 are 600$+ (that's just the amp). I'm starting to think this might not be the best idea...ugh, back to the dilemma.

 

I'm gonne lend this thread a little bit, since I might get HD600, my brother got a pair and is coming with them for christmas, but he dont have an amplifier.

What if you wanna get the best dynamics and energy from the HD600/HD650?
Basicly make it work with electronic music, more pop music etc.

 

What's the budget and what's your source?

 

Budget is 1000ish can expand some, and my source? as in DAC?(its in my sig) I use PC with Tidal and JRiver

 

I thought you were looking for an amp for your brother's HD600.

 

He doesnt use them cause he is clueless and dont have an amplifer as I mentioned.
So I will get them, as he got my Denon AH-D2000 years ago.

Funny... I dident know he even had them, but I was at his office and I saw them laying on top of a shelf loaded with dust.

 

Headphone fostex th 7-b : 70 dollars (golden diapason price for sound 2013 of the french musical magazine)

dac hifimediy : 50 dollars very good for a ridiculous price and they make around 100 dollars some better one i you wanted

amplifier : garage 1217 Ember 350 dollars (an investment to quality )

audiophile for less than 500 dollars

 

I've owned a pretty wide variety of headphones, but am new to the HD650s having just bought a pair a few weeks ago based mostly on the love for them here. If I were you, I would not worry so much about your amp/dac at this point and just go for the 650s if you think you will like their sound. I have tried them straight out of my computer, and guess what: they sound great. The advice above about getting the entry-level Schiit is good. It is all you will need for a long time. And the great thing about the 650s based on the info from this board is that they will keep getting better over time as you upgrade your other gear. But they are going to sound very good from the start.

And some advice since you asked mentioned them: avoid the T-90s. They are built well, look great, and are detailed, but the treble is painfully overemphasized. They were the first high-end headphone I bought, and I still regret it.

 

The only piece of audio gear I've owned for years and still use for music is the Sennheiser HD650. Everything else leaves within a few months.

Look into Garage1217 amplifiers. They're excellent value and can be built for you in Europe. Some people love the synergy of the Project Sunrise III with the HD650. I have one on the way.

As far as dacs go, I personally avoid Sabre dacs and love Burr-Brown stuff and Wolfson. Schiit makes excellent dacs for the money, as does Emotiva. That said, a good Sabre dac into a tube amp and HD650s would likely be awesome.

Audio-GD is my favorite dac maker at the moment.

So I'd say Audio-GD dac/amp -> Sennheiser HD650 with an eye toward a Garage1217 Project Sunrise in the future (using the Audio-GD NFB-11 or 15 as a dac for it).

 

Think about synergy too. The Schiit Magni Modi 2 Uber stack with the HD 650s is a great setup. That's my desktop setup right now. Until the transducer, the chain is on the bright and lean side of neutral. An HD 600 with something warmer like a Grace M9xx or cheaper Schiit R2R dacs would be great too. If you get a Beyer or a used HD 800 you'll want something really warmed over or rolled off due to the pencil in your eardrum treble.

If you look at Meier Audio, do not get the Corda Rock with the HD 650s. Tyll measured it as rolled off after about 11 kHz for bad recordings and since the HD 650 already is dark in the treble, sound will be suffocated due to lack of air. Looks like a great solid state amp for headphones with upper treble issues though. If it had more juice and lower output impedance, it would be killer for Hifimen.

Seconded. I can't deal with the HD 650 out of warmed over "audiophile" CD players, maple syrupy tubes, and NOS DACs. The Crack and the Vali gave more slam but made electric guitars and violins sound like the audio equivalent of putting vaseline on the camera lens to smudge the wheels of the landspeeder in Star Wars or Barbara Streisand's nose.