Crossfeed Plugins

Discussion in 'Computer Audiophile: Software, Configs, Tools' started by DivineCurrent, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. DivineCurrent

    DivineCurrent Rando

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    As all of you probably know, crossfeed attempts to simulate how our ears naturally hear music and sounds, by letting both ears hear each channel, like a 2 channel speaker setup. I have been using the ToneBoosters Isone VST plugin for quite some time, and it has a very natural crossfeed option I really enjoy. I feel like it only increases musical immersion, without many drawbacks. Subjectively, I feel like it is a good step closer to making headphone listening more natural, and perhaps has advantages over speaker setups since it doesn't have room reflections. How does everyone here feel about crossfeed? Also, are there any recommendations for good crossfeed plugins to try, or maybe internally built crossfeed on amps and dacs?
     
  2. Elnrik

    Elnrik Friendly

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    Some is too much.

    Less is more.

    None is the mostest.
     
  3. k1arg

    k1arg Acquaintance

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    This is a point where opinions vary a lot (ha, like what isn't?). There is a lot of good info in discussions about and around @atomicbob's Immersion Virtualization System, see e.g. the starting point post. Part of the IVS is Waves NX, which is a virtual room simulation, so even more than crossfeed. Some of us prefer GoodHertz CanOpener, which doesn't attempt a room simulation. I tried Isone, but only briefly, and to me it seemed to be a bit "muddy", losing/masking some low-level detail, compared to CanOpener. I also tried the Phonitor amps but was not happy as everything in the lower registers almost disappeared and became "limp": very compressed and not dynamic or impactful at all.

    Personally, I thought that crossfeed was a load of nonsense for a long time, but eventually realized that there are just a lot of really poor implementations out there. For various reasons, I'm already in the situation where everything is from a digital source, and some DSP is involved. So the initial break from sending the pure source signal has already been made. I expect that for people who use no DSP at all, adding crossfeed is a bigger step than adding it to an already "impure" :) chain. The degree of change/improvement from crossfeed is also very dependent on the recording/mastering.
     
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  4. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Almost "Made"

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    From my experience, prefering one or another crossfeed implementation (or a particular setting of a particular crossfeed) depends significantly on what exactly you want to achieve with it. Do you want to get as close as possible to speaker-like presentation in a typical (non-perfect) room? Or do you just want to decrease fatigue potentially introduced with headphone listening a bit? Or do you want some sort of mix between speaker-like and headphone-like listening, mixing strong points of both worlds somehow together?

    Crossfeeds that I find worth trying:
    - Meier VST 1.1
    - MathAudio Headphone EQ (only activate the crossfeed, keep the rest off)
    - BS2B (I like the customized Roon settings = 700Hz cut frequency with default 4.5 db or just 1 db feed level)

    TB Isone is nice but not really just a crossfeed.
     
  5. Out Of Your Head

    Out Of Your Head Friend

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  6. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I've been curious what the Sennheiser GSX is like. Its marketed towards gamers as opposed to audiophiles but I think it has potential.
     
  7. Dotard

    Dotard Acquaintance

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    I really like crossfeed, but it partially depends on your sources. I can see how some people don't see the big deal, but if your listening to vintage jazz recordings with hard panning instruments separated into each channel you can't ignore the value of crossfeed.

    Really dependant on source and your particular listening habits.

    Personally I think the king of current crossfeed is the SPL Phonitor, albeit expensive. You can really dial it into your preferences and match it to certain recordings. Sometimes all you need is a simple mono summing switch.

    Someone like me that listens to a lot of vinyls, I really appreciate the solutions that don't require a computer in the mix.
     
  8. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    At least until Jan Meier finishes his Soul statement amp. Soul is in the digital domain whereas SPL is all analog.
     
  9. DivineCurrent

    DivineCurrent Rando

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    I have tried CanOpener, a while ago it was only available for Mac, glad to see Windows support now. I suppose I like TB Isone so much because it moves the image in front of you, and yes at the cost of some clarity. It also seems to add a lot more bass, probably that muddiness you heard. I found using Crosstalk Cancellation (CSC) button helps with that.

    Never had the chance to try Waves NX, probably a much better room simulator than Isone, considering the company's reputation.

    Hi Darin! I trialed your software years ago, was very impressed! Also glad to see you added quite a few more speaker presets, I might have to re-download it now and try them out.
     
  10. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Acquaintance

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    Right or wrong, I’ve always enjoyed sound coming from speakers more than headphones (assuming similar quality and a good acoustic room). For me, use of a GOOD crossfeed/HRTF is a big plus. I’ve used ToneBooster Isone VST for a long time (through 2 major version revision), but hated the loss in music fidelity.

    Once I found AstralStorm self written VST (http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/advanced-crossfeed-dsp.762/#post-153043) I’ve dropped ToneBooster and never looked back. No critical loss of music fidelity and for me is clearly much better, even using AstralStorm default settings. I used JRiver DSP converter to convert music using both VST, and then used foobar ABX to test myself, getting generally10/10 (had two songs trip me up with 9/10).
     

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