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Details and Soundstage

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by Azimuth, Aug 18, 2016.

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  1. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    There was no "sound science" or other related forum for this discussion, so I apologize in advance if anyone thinks this is in the wrong forum.

    I don't have any opinions either way, but I thought I would ask a question and see if anyone has any good theories on this and maybe we can all learn something from this discussion.

    MY QUESTION: When evaluating gear (any audio gear), why are details and soundstage at odds with one another?

    I see this time and time again. "Product A has better details, but Product B has better soundstage". I can think of countless examples. Here are just a couple I have found here:
    I can think of more examples: HD600 - HD650, Grado - Sennheiser...It seems to permeate to headphones, speakers, amplifiers, preamps, phono cartridges, and even components (op amps or DAC chips).

    Why can't details and soundstage exist together...in harmony? Why must electronic reproduction have to have one over the other. Why must we choose? Why can't we have our cake and eat it too?

    I am not trying to say that any of these devices have both, I totally trust the reviewers. I am just trying to find out if there is some physical limitation as to what is going on, some psycho-acoustics, some other limitation of physics or electricity, because I am at at loss. Help me out guys. Anyone else thought about this? Any ideas?
     
    Azimuth, Aug 18, 2016
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  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Well, the Pavane is non-oversampling. Good luck finding a non-oversampling DAC that sounds as "sharp," which is often equated to detail, as an oversampling DAC.

    Otherwise, the most common thing I've found is that large stages tend to sound more diffuse and/or softer, thus reducing a sense of focus, which means details might not sound as clear or almost go missing.

    Lots of large generalization here.
     
    Hands, Aug 18, 2016
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  3. ibzrg1570

    ibzrg1570 Facebook Friend

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    Well there's the HD800 that delivers both detail and soundstage, so I don't think they're necessarily at odds, although there are people out there who find its soundstage unnatural.
     
    ibzrg1570, Aug 18, 2016
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  4. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I have no doubts the Pavane for a NOS DAC is pretty top-notch. I think there is a tradeoff in oversampling when it comes to sharpness. 16x starts to get a bit harsh for me. My DA-500 is 8x and it it painful enough.

    I hear you on focus and sharpness. But I have also found that the softness or loss of focus is also how I think of more lower end gear. Like, an O2 amp compared to say and Asgard 2. Or the built in DAC on your laptop vs. a Modi 2 and/or ODAC + O2. That lack of reduction in focus on the lower end gear does not actually constitute better soundstage.

    I think it might be a better question to look at each thing and compare. Like, for as similar design as the HD600 and HD650 are, why is the 600 better at detail retrival and the 600 better at detail. Then there is the HD800 that does to both. I can only imagine that the driver placement of the HD800 is better at creating that diffuse field withotu having to sacrifice focus and detail.

    But what about other hardware? Amps and DACs that only deal with things with electricity?
     
    Azimuth, Aug 18, 2016
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