ECP Torpedo III [indexed in first post]

still need to wait for them to ship ,i found a respectable tube seller in Bangkok so at least these are matched properly....

 

Only one more left ... there will be no more Cinemags, so short of something unusual - this is the last T3.

 

Is it possible to order transformers directly from Cinemag?

 

Not economically, I reckon. For one off small quantity custom stuff Lundahl might end up cheaper.

 

I wasn't talking about economics, just availability. Although Lundahl is a good option if it fits. Otherwise you can still build it with Edcors.

 

I doubt there's any drop in replacement from Lundahl. I thought there was another avenue to obtaining the Cinemags posted a few pages back when we were discussing how one could still piece together a DIY kit. Maybe take a look back.

On another topic, I'm liking Siemens ECC801S tubes in the T3 that I happened upon for cheap. They've got a really open sound that expands the soundstage width a bit - an area where the T3 does stand to improve. The downside seems to be limp dickish bass that makes me want to bring back the AMRG resistors.

 

Drop in off the shelf, not likely. They are easier to work with if you want something made to an unusual spec for a one off though.

 

Are T1 cinemags the same as t3 cinemags?

 

Yes. Also the same as ECP L-2

 

Don't they accept orders?

 

Doug will have to chime in here, because my understanding is that his transformer is proprietary with Cinemag. As it happens, the Edcors were supposed to be that way, too - all the way back to the T1. However, they started listing them as a regular product anyway. They are so inexpensive it seemed kind of pointless at the time to argue with them. Keep in mind that Doug spends a huge amount of time with a transformer company on the ratings, the size constraints, and the pin locations during development. It really is intellectual property, like a PCB or casework design.

Even if not - as others have mentioned - if it's not a normal stock item, then you are going to have to order them in volume. I can order 200 pcbs from Imagineering, for instance, for almost the same price I can get 10. Like Amb and Tangent until he quit selling, I have to spend several thousand dollars every couple of years to get Alps 50K RK27s. There's not even any customizing about it. It's just that even though 50K is in their catalog, they don't manufacture them as standard. So, you have to pay for an entire manufacturing run (a few hundred).

Imagine doing that with Cinemags when the product cost is in the $hundreds for a single one.

 

Anyone in the Sacramento area with soldering skills that want to help me put in some of the tweaks on a mostly stock T3? I have one here and bought the tweak boards (still need to see about caps).

It's been a while since I did soldering, so I thought that it might be smarter to do it with someone who has a better hand for it than I. I'll just dive in and do it myself if there is nobody around the area.


---Michael

 

Bazelio,

I'm a fan generally of Siemens tube sound as I think we discussed a few months ago in via emails, so I'm curious how much the Siemens tubes reduce or loosen the bass?

---Michael

 

Transformers are the exception. Even Edcor, which makes cheap transformers, doesn't keep any stock and makes transformers to order. Just checking the Cinemag sales page has this statement.

There's no doubt that the transformer took a bit of experimenting to get specs that work for the T1/T3. I don't think anyone is trying to cutout Beezar/ECP from the process. The problem is that the T3 and T1 PCBs are still available and yet Cinemags or other high quality transformers are not availible. If you have a proprietary agreement with Cinemag then so be it. If not then I don't see why people purchasing PCBs should only have Edcors as an option.

 

"Stock" is a relative term in this case. It's why I drew the analogy of the Alps pots. In the case of a 50K Alps pot, it's in their catalog, they have all the parts to make them, etc., they just don't manufacture them so that they have a quantity stored in a warehouse somewhere. On the other hand with Cinemag - I don't know for sure - but it may be that they didn't even have the cores/bobbins/pin rails, etc., until Doug asked them to help him design and make them. I think that was the situation with Edcor. Once they had the parts fabricated for ECP Audio/Beezar, they decided to also put the transformers in their regular catalog listing. Notably, the last iteration of the T3 Power Transformer is not listed.

This is exactly what Doug is going through with Lundahl right now for the T4. We don't yet know whether Lundahl will do it: the very cores needed for Doug's proposed T4 design don't even exist. As I understand it, Lundahl will have to make them for us. Like everyone else who is in business, Lundahl will have to decide whether making an entirely new product is in their interests.

As for T3 and T1 PCBs still available being "a problem," I wish I could order basic parts so that there were exact numbers to make up a product design, but the world doesn't work that way. Regardless, there are several customers who've ordered the PCBs with Edcors. Cinemags were never available for the T1 before the T3 came along anyway. I'd love to sell the rest of the PCBs but recognize that probably won't be possible. There's significant money lost right there. Further, we haven't even mentioned the casework. I still have some of those, too. I managed the case work personally and can guarantee you that more won't be fabricated for Beezar.

I'm sorry the business side of things doesn't fit with your idea of what we should be doing. It would be nice to have everything just like we want it, but Doug and I have to make business decisions, too. Right now, we are focusing on the T4. Ordering another very expensive manufacturing run from Cinemag for the T3 doesn't fit in with that.

Please feel free to contact Doug and/or Cinemag and see what they may agree to let you do.

 

Hey guys, been a while. I a have question for @TomB or anyone else really. I see there was a change where people were using heatsinks on their tube CCS boards? Is that mandatory? My amp has been running fine and i really didn't pay much attention to it other then heat, i can hold my hand on the case indefinitely if thats any measure to go by.

 

Not the tube CCS boards - the Output CCS boards are the ones needing the heat sinks.

 

Ah yeah must have got them confused, they are the ones up top next to tubes right. I'm sure i have heatsinks or whatever laying around, i've been ocing pc's for 20 years now

 

The T3 with Cinemags has been available for quite a while. Based on the overall slowness and the decreasing rate of sales, we assumed that anyone who wanted one and who planned on buying one had done so already. If that is wrong, we're sorry for the assumption. But as Tom says, keeping these in stock is very expensive, and supporting them is time consuming. This is particularly true as the various upgrades have been added which has made the build too difficult for people who are not experienced.

The T3 was envisioned as a way to support the DIY community, but at this point very few people actually build their own. It is just an under priced amplifier that is largely manufactured by Tom for little remuneration. If there is a sudden groundswell of people who want a DIY T3, we can certainly do a limited run. Otherwise it is time to move on. We only have so much time and money we can invest in this stuff, and we have decided that investing in the development of a follow up amplifier makes more sense.

 

Does anyone have suggestions for low gain tubes? I am using the S/E output of the Yggdrasil and listen to music that has plenty of dynamic range and isn't squashed, but with the stock tubes I still find that I never take it past 11 o' clock, much more often not past 9/10 o' clock. This is with HD600/HD6xx on high impedance setting on the amp.

Preferably recommendations for something that is still operating at a decent plate load for the transformers, I don't want something unoptimzed

And any hints on T4 topology?