Feliks-Audio Elise Tube Amp Review (NOT)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    @Hands sometime soon should really loan you my Mjolnir2 with good NOS tube pairs, so you can put the above "general recommendation of Mjo2" into more solid terms for official documentation's sake. it doesn't get as much FOTM write ups, yet I've been enjoying Mjo2+Gungnir Multibit+HE500 for months at my work desk.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    @jexby That would be great! I just know I was pleasantly surprised at our last meet when I heard it, and SE no less.
     
  3. Kon Peki

    Kon Peki Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Boston, MA (USA)
    No problem. I've been enjoying my other amps in the meanwhile :).
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    In that case, @Artasia, if you want me to try a couple tubes in the 6080 spots, looks like @Kon Peki is OK with that.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    @gibosi: You know what you are doing. Can you tell me with a straight face
    @gibosi, I don't think anyone here is concerned about what you are doing because you actually do have an idea you are doing. Creating uneven paralleled stacks / towers of babel or running 6C33Cs on the Elise should be cause for concern.
     
  6. Artasia

    Artasia Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    441
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I can send them. I am personally content with your observations using the tubes Kon Peki provided, but if you (or others) feel it would be helpful to try the Bendix 6080WB and Tungsol 7236 power tubes, I am happy to ship them to you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  7. gibosi

    gibosi Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    My take on this is that for most of us, this is a hobby. It is not a business. People buy their own equipment with their own money. And if they then decide to do stupid and silly things with their equipment, it is not for me to judge.

    But that said, when they try to convince me that what they are doing should be taken seriously, I simply laugh at them and tell them not to be silly. (And yes I have done this.)

    And if doing these stupid and silly things breaks their equipment and they then try to get the manufacturer to fix it for free under warranty, I would consider this to be unconscionable. (I have not seen anyone do this, but I am sure it happens.... )
     
  8. Mikoss

    Mikoss Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
  9. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sector 8023 of the Third Quadrant
    Oddly he posts it on the meet thread and not on the Elise thread.
     
  10. SeaBupter

    SeaBupter Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Venusberg on the Fraser
    LOL! In his next post, he embarks on a journey up a certain river in Egypt:

    "I kept this 'on the DL' from the Elise thread so they won't attribute this to my recent tube combo creation (which I'm sure wasn't the cause)."
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  11. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sector 8023 of the Third Quadrant
    Oops. I just posted on that thread so they could help a bro out. Oh well, it's hype fi, all is forgiven! :D
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    @Artasia I'll leave it up to you if you want to send the tubes my way. Your call! Just PM me if you want to go through with it.

    Closing Thoughts on Elise (Unless more tubes come my way, then I'll post brief thoughts on those)

    I did some more listening with the Elise over the weekend, using some tubes more to my liking, and here are my thoughts in a nutshell (lots of repetitive points from before, just condensed):

    Pros
    - Good tone. Sounds natural.
    - Nice blend of the usual tube sound, with a slight bit of bloom and liquidity. Not overly forward, tight or edgy, nor gooey or mushy. Leans slightly towards a hint of extra softness, but in a good way. Might have the slightest bit of raspiness to the upper-mids.
    - Good staging. Nice width and air.
    - Good resolution and separation.
    - Fast.
    - Good micro-dynamics.
    - Responds well to tube changes (i.e. can noticeably change the sound).

    Cons (albeit some are acceptable given price point)
    - Doesn't have the low-bass extension, macro-dynamics, or authority as the best tube amps.
    - Bass quality is a little murky. Not as textured as it could be. About the same as a highly modded Crack, but without the same amount of thickness to the sound.
    - Does not have the sense of definition, resolution, clarity, etc. as a really good tube amp. Again, see slight hint of softness comment. It's more a plus than not, but the best tube amps deliver the tube goodness without downsides.

    Here's how I'd rank some of the tube amps I've heard:

    Studio > Modded Super 7/Modded Torpedo 3 (S7 might slightly edge it out) >> Highly modded Crack/Elise (more dependent on tastes) > Valhalla 2

    The Elekit TU-8200 and Mjolnir 2 are competitors as well in their price points, but I'd have to spend more time with them one-on-one to place them.

    The Elise is a reasonable step up from the Valhalla 2 if you are looking for something similar-ish but with a slightly more lively nature, less solid-state sound, and a bit more sweetness/liquidity to the sound. The Elise also changes more with various tubes. The Crack might be a better option if you want something really gripping and fun, more like a typical tube amp with some ballsy characteristics (w/ mods), but are willing to go the DIY route and mod it a lot. A modded Super 7 is about the best damn value I've heard from an amp that offers end-game (or near-end-game) performance, and the Torpedo 3 is pretty damn close as well. The Studio has the most refinement out of any tube amps I've heard but is crazy expensive.

    So, at $700 for a ready-to-go amp, the Elise is quite good. Recommended if that's about as much as you can spend. Just don't expect it to really match the best tube amps, nor should that necessarily keep you from stopping at the Elise and enjoying it for what it is as long as you can. That said, if you can stretch your budget, you might have other, used options to consider if you are patient.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Voltage regulator for the filament heater probably got pushed past its limits.

    @gibosi: I think you give too much credit to people being honest. Sometimes it's people being embarrassed of their own stupidity, and I totally understand that. I am sensitive to that. But other times it is actually people doing unconscionable things.
     
  14. nephilim

    nephilim Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I promised to come back regarding my humming Elise...

    Earlier this week the second unit arrived. Tested it with various tubes and while the level was changing, the annoying 50Hz hum was always there. In #65, @dpump suggested to use an isolation transformer. I ordered one and tested again tonight - w/o success. So both, transformer and Elise will have to leave.

    In order to quantify what bothers me I took my cheap multimeter. When no music is playing, there is 0 VAC but 15mVDC on the headphone contacts. I am more into mechanical engineering but I guess DC cannot produce a hum. However, I am sure I am not measuring properly.

    I remember Marv's measurements in #19, which showed a distinct 50Hz peak. Assuming the level would be constant for all volume settings, would that signal be strong enough to be audible when no music is playing (HD800 in my case)?

    Feeling a bit annoyed because I repeatedly backed the wrong horse - or it's me with a 50Hz natural frequency in my brain which needs just a tiny excitation to enter resonance.

    Back to the ZOTL... or maybe the Torpedo 3? But then I love to see glowing tubes...
     
  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    I heard absolutely nothing with the HD650, no music, knob turned all the way up.
     
  16. error

    error Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Have you tried Elise at some other place? At work for example or at some friends place?
     
  17. nephilim

    nephilim Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Interesting. With both samples I heard that constant 50Hz hum and towards the highest volume setting an additional buzz, starting at approx. 90% volume and getting louder with increasing volume.

    Yes, I tried that with the first sample: a house built 3 years ago (electrical installation according to modern standards) in a different city - same behaviour.

    Here is the summary of what I tried:

    • different sources or no source at all
    • different tubes
    • different power outlet
    • all fuses in the house deactivated except one
    • DECT phones switched off
    • DC offset filter (two)
    • isolation transformer
    • auto-transformer reducing mains voltage from 230 to 220 and 210VAC
    • different headphone
    • different environment (house & city)
    • second person (she heard it as well)
    I have no idea what else could be varied. Looking at Marvs measurement I think it's obvious that there is "something" - the question is, would it be audible. I am bad in translating the Vrms and signal strength of his measurement and efficiency of my HD800 into a statement whether it is or is NOT audible.

    What I know is that I hear no 50Hz hum via the ZOTL - and this is in line with Marvs's measurement.
     
  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Maybe you are putting off some sort of weird EMI/RFI yourself. Are you a cyborg? :p

    I honestly am not sure at this point. Sounds like you've tried everything. I had a weird issue with one of my amps that would ONLY show with a very particularly DAC. I had to rearrange some wiring, insulate/shield some items, and so on, and that solved my issue. But still weird that only one DAC would cause the amp to hum at all. Sounds like you tried different DACs, though.
     
  19. nephilim

    nephilim Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I tried it w/o DAC, too. Nothing connected at all but still the dreaded hum.

    Anyway... Elise will go and that chapter shall be closed.
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    12,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    So, the weird thing about my situation was that the amp hummed noticeably with one DAC, would hum less with nothing plugged in, and was silent with all other DACs plugged in I had on hand to try. (Again, totally different amp than the Elise.)
     

Share This Page