HD 650 vs HD 700 Review

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by techboy, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    OK, to compare square waves, we first need to normalize them. From experience, small differences in volume make no difference in impulse response or square waves. (The only times where I've seen differences in square waves and impulse response decay was with high Zout devices on lowish Zin headphones. An example would be the Meridian Exploder USB DAC gizmo into the HE-500.) So I will take the liberty of normalizing the graphs. The HD700 graph needed to be expanded by 15% on the vertical axis to be comparable to the HD650.

    SW.png

    Looking at purely graphs, it's I don't think one can say that one headphone's square waves is much better to the other. This is what we can discern:
    • The HD650 has marginally more overshoot.
    • If we try to guesstimate the HD650 cycles (looks like about seven per half wave), then we can probably expect some ringing in the upper mids / lower treble.
    • The HD650 ringing is about half the duration of the HD700s ringing. In fact, the HD700 ringing doesn't really stop. It sort of goes on and on.
    • The HD700 has less overshoot; but guesstimmating the cycles, it looks like there is ringing in the lower / mid treble region.
    Continued ringing is very horrible. If I'd have to pick an audio transformer (it's typical to measure 10kHz square waves on transformers), the one on the right goes into the garbage immediately. Since nothing is perfect, there can always been overshoot or undershoot. For headphones and transducers, subjectively, I prefer an overshoot instead of undershoot; but continued ringing under all circumstances is bad.

    The only things we can say here is that the energy dissipation with the HD650 is lower in frequency than the HD700, with more initial overshoots, but less duration. In the end, the better visualizations to look at are the CSDs and frequency response. Anything else subjective people are deriving from the square waves is coincidental. Unfortunately, I do not have CSDs for the HD700 on my most current V2 measurement rig.

    In terms of clarity, I strongly suspect the HD700 has much better distortion figures than the HD650, especially in the bass. I don't have distortion numbers for the HD700, nor do I care. If one can pay $600 for an HD700, much better to stretch that to $1000 and buy a grey market or used HD800. There is a reason why the HD700 started at $1000, went down to $700, are are now at $528 clearance special on Amazon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016

  2. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    For me the HD700 is a strange beast, it is not a HD6X0... and it's not quite a HD800. But rather than being a happy marriage of those two I feel that the HD700 borrows more from the HD6X0's and HD800's weaknesses than from their strengths.

    For me personally though all three headphones - HD650, HD700 and HD800 - have always been superlatively comfortable. It's the Audeze headphones I have a problem using for more than an hour at a time.
     
  3. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    I think this is a really good point that deserves more attention, especially from people that are new and getting into the hobby. As examples, the HD700, and even more so the Beyer T1 sound really incredibly detailed and transparent. Little footsteps or someone snapping tend to really "pop" and suddenly your attention will be drawn to it. When I originally started listening to these headphones my initial impression was something along the lines of "Wow, I can't believe how much detail these are picking up". But only because you're hearing a focus on the sound spectrum where these details occur.

    However, the detail they are drawing to in the higher treble, often reduces and distracts from tonality in the mids and bass (for some reason, more often the mids).
     
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  4. therealjay

    therealjay Rando

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    Once upon a time I made the mistake of buying these. I was warned by multiple people as well not to do it. I figured at the time the soundstage would win me over no matter what as I tend to use my headphones for gaming and multimedia nearly as much as music.

    I've never heard a headphone that produces noise quite as uncomfortably as these. I'm not even talking about the peaks neccesarily there's just something jarring and off about the music. I couldn't listen for longer then an hour at a time. Since then I've kind of come to the conclusion I'm not big on bright headphones. I had the same feeling with HE-560's as I did with the 700s. Although oddly enough I didn't find the Alpha Dogs bright at all.

    I'd imagine if I took the time to look at the measurements I could figure out exactly which area of the response is so irritating to me just haven't sat down to do it yet.

    The one thing I actually really enjoyed about them was the bass. Tight and fast. I've just ordered an HD 800 and I'm really looking forward to getting that back again after listening to a ton of headphones in between the two.
     
  5. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    I love the HD800's bass. It's about the tightest fastest bass I've heard from just about any headphone. Give it a small bass boost and an amp with enough voltage and it will make your head rumble too. Surprised you haven't signed up for the SD mod yet... planning to EQ it?
     
  6. Audio Zenith

    Audio Zenith Friend

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    Precisely the case!
     
  7. TMoney

    TMoney Wow, I made it this far without being a friend?

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    If this is true then you have a pretty good point. I wonder if we can get @Tyll Hertsens to weigh in on this?
     
  8. therealjay

    therealjay Rando

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    To be honest with you I don't know what it is. I literally bought the 800s last night and I'm not sure if I'm going to mod them right off the bat. Going to definitely sit down with them first and find out how it sounds stock before I do anything.
     
  9. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    I expanded the HD700 plot by 15% along the y-axis. Since the vertical axis is in linear scale volts, a conversion to decibels would be an increase of about 1.2db. To verify, Tyll would need to take the square wave measurement (per HD700 plot), and then increase SPL by 1.2db and observe the differences of the square waves.
     
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  10. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    That's fine. If you find them a little bright EQ down the 6kHz band about 3dB and lift up the bass about 3dB. The HD800 is one of the best and most transparent transducers on the market, but many experienced owners use mods and/or EQ to tailor them to personal tastes.
     
  11. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    Yeah. Give it some time for your brain to get accustomed to the bright sound. My first listen to the HD800 was like WTF#@$!?
     
  12. hellwhynot

    hellwhynot Friend

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    Unless I'm misinterpreting that, like I'm taking it out of context, that sounds like an immediate deal-breaker for me.
     
  13. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    [​IMG]
    People are into different things. I am not one to judge (but I will warn the unwitting).
     
  14. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Let's not compare the HD700 to S&M. Even kinksters have limits.
     
  15. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Could be a good safe word. Like "AKG Q701" is yellow, and "HD700" is red.
     
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  16. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    GarthTortureChair.jpg
    Picture-14.png
     
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  17. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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  18. Marvey

    Marvey Loves sex and records

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    Oh crap. Bearded Spock pain thing must have hurt bad.

    I'll see you to it with this:
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    This thread has taken an amusing turn.

    You've found the skullcandy of toy selections here.

    A true connoisseur uses vintage 1950s weatherstripping (no microphonics!) or cordovan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  20. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    The HD700.... for people who like S&M.

    Is that about the gist of it?
     

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