HD800 SUPPLEMENTAL MODS

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by Maxx134, Apr 27, 2016.

?

Are you satisfied with HD800 yet

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    58.8%
  2. Not until try these

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  3. Never

    5 vote(s)
    29.4%
  1. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Ok for this thread, we will delve into some mods that are not as popular, or as known, tried, or even recommended(!)..
    :p

    Why?.. Three reasons:
    1- DIY competence level
    2- DIY patience level
    3- DIY regret level (just kiddn)



    *Edit:
    update pending


    Sonic results are an increase in the bass "seal", providing a more palpable presence of the subsonics, and so the bass impact does not escape thru the foam pads.
    This mod is easily reversable.


    ******************


    2nd- next, is the " DYNAMAT EXTREME " MOD (!)... :

    This mod will require the most skill and competence, or just patience.

    The objective here is to "mass load" the area of the driver coupling to the basket, to shift/eliminate the resonance peak problem.

    This approach aims to attack the problem itself,
    rather than to bandage it up with the existing internal & driver mods.

    First, we get some cut pieces of DYNAMAT EXTREME!
    *pic*






    Go all around this area only.


    Next,
    we move onto the front side driver .
    We replace the metal ring with same shape using dynamat extreme (!):
    *pic*




    *pic*


    There you go...

    These extra mods will supplement the existing latest mods nicely.

    *Practically* curing the HD800 of its long held complaints. .(*IMHO).
    Also,
    The dynamat fix is a "double edged sword" ,
    Because the stock diffused treble helped create the HD800 soundstage to an extent,
    So with focus, comes less false soundstaging. .

    This mod is not so easily reversable as you would have to clean up the dynamat.
    I highly doubt anyone would want to reverse this mod after listening to the lazer pinpoint textures though...


    **** **** ****


    Lastly, it is nice to have a choice of "RESONATOR MOD"

    I feel the current "French Mod" IS the best iteration so far for adressing the "peak" problem.

    But it is lean and less lively for me.
    for a more original 800s " full " or lively sound I prefer these specific Sennheiser tips instead:
    *pic*
    [​IMG]

    As they are within 2-3db difference of the "French mod", in adressing the treble peak reduction,
    Untill you close the back/bottom.
    Then I was told they're more similar in treble area.

    Since I do not need that much reduction when combined with the Dynamat mod,
    I just use the tips alone and retain more "presence" without fatigue.
    *edit:
    It should be noted these black foam tips give most bass as well.
    :piratemug:
    Edit :
    A friend of mine found this Sen foam to be a bit too dark and heavy,
    Just like the HD800S, so we switched back to the Official "French Mod", and gained back neutrality.
    So the black foam is not for everybody.
    It is for those that prefer the 800s a bit more yet do not want its drawbacks.

    I have now a more focused solid sound with more bass! Than stock.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  2. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I really need to try the dynamat mods. I also want to measure if I can see some differences (in vibration). It could very well be that the reduction in treble is simply due to the felt vs metal ring (mind you that I'm also using a felt ring instead of the metal ring around the driver) or even that the dynamat is less reflective than the metal.
    Any subjective impressions on the dynamat on the back of the driver basket alone?

    EDIT: Also with the pads, the HD800 is really weird: The thicker the pad gets, the bassier (AND BRIGHTER, the mids get more sucked out with thicker/newer pads) the HD800 gets. I think that what you did was essentially make the pad thicker, instead of preventing air from leaking outside (I could be wrong though, might give this a try myself). Also, having a reflective surface on the pads like that is probably not a very good idea.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  3. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    I am using brand new pads and the rubber is folded flat so as to give minimal padding..

    I will update in future with measurements once I have a setup,
    but for now I noticed the sub Bass is more present,
    as if the pads had more of a seal or better coupling to ear.

    Also,
    I tried plenty of different materials on the metal ring,

    Then eventually replace the metal ring using felt or foam ,
    but this last Dynamat mod prove to be the most noticeable improvement.

    The aspect of greater focus and reduction of the diffused trebles being most prevalent.
    Edit*:
    I believe the dynamat effect is also due to change in housing mass & resonance, which effectively changes the treble peak.

    I will bring these hd800 to hear at next NY meet .
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  4. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Pyrate BWC MZR
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    [Reviving this thread only because I don't want the discussion to die (it never actually started)]

    I got the dynamat extreme today and after modding the HD600, the HD800 was next.
    The only thing I tried yet is to replace my felt driver baffle ring with dynamat. The driver baffle usually changes the bass and midrange frequency response but for the most part doesn't change the treble all too much. Would be interesting to see directivity measurements for this driver.

    Initial Impressions:
    I feel like there is more bass. This is probably because my felt ring wasn't screwed in and I didn't get an air-tight seal. What is annoying however (and this was even more immediately obvious to me) is that the area around 2kHz got boosted with the dynamat. This is probably a good thing if you're not using the SBAF absorber, but with the SBAF absorber I prefer the midrange tone with only the felt (those were my impressions before I took measurements).
    IEM Measurements:
    Ignore the peak from 6-8kHz. This depends on the mic insertion depth. Ideally I should insert the mic less deep. With an insertion depth like for the measurements below, I get a peak there even with the HD600.
    These measurements were done with the following mods: SBAF absorber; SD resonator upside down; new stock HD800 pads with smaller than stock inner plastic ring
    IEM R HD800 ring baffle dynamat vs felt (green).png
    When I saw this, I was super happy to see my impressions confirmed. With my current methodology, I like to see a straight line for the midrange. (Maybe a slight dip around 1kHz, I'm not sure about that.). The HD600 measures basically flat in the midrange with a small dip at 2kHz and a small bump around 3-4kHz, just like how it sounds to me.
    The differences aren't huge. I expected more of a bump around 2kHz. But then again even a 1.5db change is a lot. I preferred the midrange tone with the felt.
    (The felt I am using isn't ideal and has some drawbacks, especially over the stock metal ring with foam underneath. The Sennheiser engineers had their reasons when they made that.)

    The next thing I did was add the felt on top of the dynamat. When you extend the baffle higher than the driver cover you usually get a bump around 500Hz-1kHz. The felt usually tends to smooth the 2kHz bump, so this should theoretically make for a more neutral response than the dynamat alone.
    I attached the measurements. These were only quick measurements and I feel like everything above 5kHz should be ignored. I actually feel that the difference around 3-4kHz matches what I hear, but even this could be simple measurement variance. I think I still preferred the midrange tone with only the felt. Also the comfort, my felt is 2mm thick.

    BTW: All of these measurements seem to confirm that the "housing resonance" isn't what causes the treble peak.

    I will make a thread in the future where I measure the effect of popular HD800 mods in my ears. I've promised this for quite some time. It is actually happening.
    Hint: There's nothing we haven't seen yet. Also: The SBAF absorber is legitimately awesome.

    EDIT: Didn't expect the dynamat removal to be so messy.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  5. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Hi Serious,
    Sorry you had to go thru all that.

    I have been busy modding the HE1K.
    But will get around to posting a comparison graph.

    Although the proper procedure my mod essentially had twice the damping weight,
    Because of the addition to the rear.

    I will be bringing them to the upcoming NYMeet to hear.
    They easily have more focus than any other modded HD800 I have heard and I do not have any other mods than what is posted above.
    I have access to two other HD800 (not mine) I compare to, but I will need to take measurements of all three so will take some time.
    Regardless, I am very appreciative that you continue the work on the root cause.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2016
  6. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    I've been pretty busy recently but I'll soon get to trying your tape mod hopefully. Thanks for your work on this.
     
  7. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Thanks I enjoy experimenting and end up continuously changing so never bored with trying new things...
    I recently got a new computer and I have a test dummy head for my test setup,
    And plan to make more realistic by adding latex "skin" to the ears.
    :)

    My only issue time..
    My main project is working on my tube amp with Changing the tube type which is a pain configuring bias points and listening.

    The main thing I leaned,
    is whatever you do,
    to enjoy the music first.

    Yet,
    I think I would even open an LCD4 if I had one,
    he.
     
  8. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    The dynamat removal ended up being not so bad once I found out that dynamat sticks to itself more than anything else.
    I may try the rear dynamat mods. I'm just worried that we would create a cylindrical surface on the back.
    The problem that I see is that I think that the SBAF absorber mod is necessary to get a proper upper midrange and treble balance. I doubt that I would like a "hyper focused" HD800 with recessed upper mids. Being located in Germany I doubt that I could hear yours any time soon.
    I'm actually quite happy with my HD800 right now. The only thing that I still have to tweak is the ring around the driver. I will probably end up trying many more materials (Only tried foam, cork, dynamat and felt yet). The right outer diameter is also crucial for the right midrange timbre. 0.5mm makes a big difference there. The best thing would be something that has the benefits of the stock metal ring/dynamat (rigid driver mounting, airtight seal, more "controlled") and the felt (proper midrange timbre, smoother treble, ...). I guess there will always be drawbacks to everything.
    It would be very interesting to see measurements of your mods. The most realistic "dummy head" is probably using your own head for the measurements.
     
  9. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Yes I am finding it a bit agressive and hyper.
    It is now reserved for critical listening if equipment change.
    While my HEK has taken the place of wider music enjoyment..

    Feel free to post here anything you think is benificial,
    as I would add anyone's "supplemental mods" to first post.
    :)
     
  10. ThePianoMan

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    @Maxx134 Do you have copies of the pics? They aren't showing because of photobucket right now, and I was hoping to reference them for some HD800 driver mods I'm tinkering with...
     
  11. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    I updated my first post with some pics from my phone and will add more from my laptop later to clarify...
     

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