HDCD

Discussion in 'Music and Recordings' started by Luckbad, Aug 18, 2016.

  1. murray

    murray Friend

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    Listening to un-decoded HDCD via a non-HDCD DAC will be non-optimal, as the dynamic range expansion will not be activated/processed. It will likely sound more compressed in some passages.
     
  2. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    True, if the un-decoded HDCD used the optional "peak extension". I am under the impression that most HDCDs did not choose to use this feature.

    But for those that did, we are talking about up to 6db more dynamic range!
     
  3. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    As you guys already figured out, as long as you maintain the original bits, it will see be HDCD. This includes lossless ripping (FLAC, etc.). It works with my FLAC files at least.

    My question was, would HDCD still be there through lossless streaming. In theory, right?

    So I recently purchased a Denon receiver that decodes HDCD. It is plugged in through my Pi through S/PDIF. The Pi has Kodi loaded and I use the Tidal app (unofficial).

    Lo and behold, I do HDCD configuration on my receiver when playing songs/albums in HDCD from Tidal.
     
  4. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    HDCD does survive lossless encoding. As I'm typing this, I'm playing my own rip of Thomas Newman - Meet Joe Black original score - encoded in ALAC - via Raspberry + Allo Digione (DietPi) -> Coax -> Classé DAC-1.

    The HDCD sign is on throughout all tracks.

    However
    , TIDAL's own lossless version has an interesting behavior: the HDCD sign turns on and off repeatedly as the track plays. I suspect, digital audio watermarking is messing up the HDCD signature and the DAC won't lock on HDCD when watermark is added to the sound*.

    (*) it seems TIDAL's watermarking technology targets a specific band (where the ear is most sensitive, to make it harder to remove without altering the audio quality). When that band is not excited by the audio signal, watermarking is effectively not inserted and the HDCD logo turns back on.
     
  5. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I suspect this is Universal's watermark interfering. That is the only watermarking I know of on Tidal.
     
  6. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Just wondering, if they watermark and its audible, doesnt that then defeat the whole idea of streaming lossless, as the streamed signal is different? This harks back to stripping off the encoding from CDs with an Audio Alchemy DTI making the stream sound better. I guess if you can hear the difference, then thats what they do.
     
  7. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    It does kind of defeat the idea of lossless streaming. It is supposed to be inaudible. I cannot hear it, but I can hear the effects. Things sound more "fuzzy" and less in focus - less sharp and clear.

    You can go HERE to the official discussion about it.

    THIS is the best info on it.
     
  8. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Thanks, @rtaylor76 , that was very enlightening.
     
  9. Grattle

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    I ripped mine by using the analog output of my Oppo, and recording from that to 24/96000 using an audio interface. Sample rate is overkill, but, disk space isn't really an issue. The result is that it's been decoded in hardware, and now I can play it anywhere, and even encode it to a high bit rate or lossless file format and retain the HDCDness. It may not be bit perfect, but, it all goes analog at some point.
     
  10. Peti

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    HDCD technically can make clearly audible and pleasant differences. Alas, the vast majority of them HDCDs won't take advantage of this technology (or its improved version, the Super-HDCD). I have like ten HDCDs in my collection out of which there's only one that fully utilizes this technology. The best example perhaps is Green Day's Nimrod album. This is the same song with and without HDCD encoding (DR5 vs DR10):

    [​IMG]

    Independence Day OST is another good candidate. I wish the sound engineers of those modern horridly crushed (dynamically) pop/metal albums utilized this tactic to please those who want more dynamic range than 5db. It'd be totally possible. Pity
    [​IMG]
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I need to dig up my LaserDisc -> Betamax copies of Empire Strikes Back and 8-track of The Village People.
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    You could have just ripped it as 16 bit and 24 bit copy and had basically both options (listening to it like any regular CD or like it would sound as HDCD but from any DAC).

    Why did you do it this way instead and essentially deteriorate the material?
     

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