Holo Audio - Spring DAC - Level 3 - "Kitsune Tuned Edition" - Impressions & Reviews

HD650 always reminds me more of a straight line through my ears or eyes with varying, but very subtle, levels of depth and layering, no matter what I use. Very in your head, almost requires a quasi/pseudo out of body type perspective to fool yourself into thinking an HD650 sets a stage in front of you. Like I have to think and travel to Imaginationland to get the stage outside of me. The differences between Gungnir Multibit (based on memory), SFD-1, or Spring through the HD650 struck me as minimal in terms of staging gains, minus typical density of a NOS stage that is hard to describe until heard. Something like the Jotun seemed to collapse the depth of the stage to me on the HD650 more than any DAC ever has, even NOS, if that makes sense. In that light, if I can happily live with the Jotun, which I can, because staging is pretty far down on my list of priorities, nor do I find the Jotun's thin stage that egregious, a dense or forward stage, but not as collapsed as Jotun, like on the Spring, compared to a good OS DAC, barely registers in my lizard brain. (Sorry for the incredibly dense sentence there as well as dense paragraph as a whole. Not even sure my point makes 100% sense or is applicable.)

But the more I think about headphone staging, save for on a few models like the MA900, Elear/Utopia, and HD800, the more I want to die. So I just ignore it to a large extent when listening for pleasure. Lizard brain can only handle so much strain, best to just sing to yourself in the headphone corner.

I imagine speakers are much different and hope to dig into these sorts of evaluations in the near future. (Pss, anyone got a Gungnir Multibit they can loan me down the road?)

I could be staging illiterate in general or have my tube amp tuned to make everything sound like it has a stage made of rainbows and sunshine.

Yep, gotta pay an arm and a leg for a good NOS DAC relative to Gungnir Multibit. And even then, you gotta try it for yourself to determine if A) you're a NOS person and B) if the price differential is worth it to you.

Random: In a lot of ways, NOS vs OS reminds me of debates about TN vs IPS monitors. Not exact, but close. Most everyone has their preferences and keep to their bubble, unsure how others live outside of the bubble comfortably. Some are a little more well versed in reaching across the aisle. For IPS, it's all about color quality, but the speed tends to suck. Some will swear up and down they don't see the smearing or flat out deny anyone should or could care because it's not noticeable by the human eye or that framerate times are still higher or blah blah blah. Meanwhile, TN guys try to pretend their monitors aren't washed out, pretend viewing angles aren't an issue, you know, except until they find a good TN panel, and then they think they can go up against IPS in those regards. But, really, TN is all about pixel speed and the like, which is very important to some. Some proclaim color accuracy and PQ as god, others pixel speed and response times, while each side tries their best to pretend there are no downsides or compromises to their preferred monitor type. Again, far from an exact comparison, but having compared monitors too, NOS vs OS brings out the same sentiment in me.

 

LOL. I'm glad you brought these things up. They are excellent points. I would say that the CD transports I am using (both the Marantz and Theta are unicorns) have a sound that is more similar to the RedNet Ethernet to SPDIF or Lynx PCI to SPDIF gizmos than to any USB. I know that a lot of people here run the RedNet and Lynx devices here. They should expect similar results. At the very worst 1.34-3.21% inferior, if at all. USB simply does not compare.

On the topic of synergistic bonus points, it's probable that Gungnir Multibit reacts to better transports (not USB) more than the Holo.

Yes, the Theta Data III is superior to the Marantz. Unfortunately, it's showing its age and not reading some CD-Rs as well as it used to.

I have two TVs in the house. They are both relatively ancient plasma. For movies, I have a painted bedsheet in the backyard and a projector. Lack of shadow detail and inability to reproduce discernible dark greys levels bugs the heck out of me. Ultimately blackness is less of priority. I need to see discernible darker shades. I also tend to dial back the sharpness setting on most TVs and projectors. Sharpness does not equate to resolution. My tastes in audio are similar.

 

Price competitive until you're looking at the real goods...1440p or greater, 120Hz+, adaptive sync, actually good TN panel OR surprisingly fast IPS (still kinda smeared). Oh, and tons of QA issues with those at that. That's when I get sad. Anyway...

I guess my point more was sometimes you have to try out varying types of technologies to see what suits you best. Listen to one for awhile, then another. Think about things for a while. What product kinda sits in your memory more than the other, regardless of what your immediate reaction suggests during comparisons? I believe I've said that I tend to prefer OS overall, not in all cases, for more critical, shorter listening sessions. But when I'm doing long-term listening, not back-to-back, and think on things for weeks, I tend to gravitate towards NOS. Just gives me more pleasure in the end despite what I know it doesn't do as well. Not unlike how I ultimately gravitate towards TN or faster panels simply because the pixel smearing of IPS or similar bothers me over time, especially with fast-paced gaming. I try not to make it a black-and-white or zero sum game situation out of matters like this but rather steer towards preferences combined with a "so long as it ain't total shit" mentality.

Regarding source matching, Gungnir Multibit does respond a lot to various sources and the like. Plus, you always have to wonder how things like the PSU and its components or even SPDIF/AES transformers in the Spring are affecting the sound. Silver to me often sounds flatter staging wise, if you believe in silver vs copper, and the KTE has a lot of silver components in it. Upgraded caps might affect stage. Hmm, maybe the color of the buttons are doing something. Tons and tons of variables to consider and drive you into madness wondering about possible nonsense! (Repeat, Gungnir Multibit is the easy option for most.)

 

It does annoy me that "NOS" tends to come with a price premium since there is less parts or work involved. BTW, OS mode makes the HKTE into a garbage DAC. It should never have been offered, even as a user selectable option. NOS is where the HKTE really shines.

 

Right? I'll try to play devil's advocate a bit. Design choices necessary to balance the downsides inherent to NOS that OS was developed to specifically "filter" out? Can't always take a DAC meant for OS and just remove the filter with good results, or so I'm told. I doubt that would really contribute to the price differential. Smaller companies or manufacturers, smaller scale/less sales, less headroom for R&D costs? I have no idea. I know Metrum put in a lot of R&D money to develop their custom DAC modules recently (not off the shelf parts), don't offer direct sales, and aren't selling as many DACs as, say, Schiit, I would guess. Or perhaps it's just riding the wave of ever increasing costs and being able to get away with products priced much more than they're really worth?

Would also point out the base model of Spring is in the mid-$1K point. Damn, which I could get one to compare to KTE.

And don't anyone try to point out a NOS TDA1543 DAC as a cheap offering counterpoint. There's a reason you can get 1543 DACs for dirt cheap. Not that they can't be enjoyable, but they aren't technical marvels.

 

R2R and NOS are different things though. I guess NOS necessitates the use of R2R, which inherently costs more. No more handy OS filter chips like the Golden Age of DACs I suppose, hence the plethora of NOS.

Following up on the soundstage illustrations:

 

If you mean DSD, I actually did. Your post wasn't the first time that I had to correct misinformation that the Holo's R2R ladders can process bitstream data. It's just that DSD is of no or little concern here since most of care most about PCM because 99.9% of our music is in PCM. The handful that do care about DSD know exactly what to do it themselves. And those who care about high resolution formats here go vinyl. There are plenty of vinylheads here. I have 100 records for each SACD / DSD that I own. And again, I'd take an MFSL Gain I ADC mastered recording over almost any SACD master.

 

I can't believe it's come to this, but I thought I should post this from the designer himself (original source: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...alogue-converter-r2r-dsd512-29319/#post568210)

...

About DSD 'native', it is the way the USB transfer the stream. You
know DOP, which is DSD Over PCM. DOP put the DSD into a PCM stream. At the
receiver end, it just unpack the PCM stream and get the DSD back. DOP does
NOT change any bit of DSD stream, just sending it with the package. So it
waste some data rate. At the same data rate, DOP is 1/2 of DSD native, the
other 1/2 is the package. So DOP and DSD native are all bit perfect. The DSD
stream sending to DAC is all the same.

So, now you should know, DSD native is just about the way it
transfer the stream. Not describing the way it doing digital to analog
conversion. At the DAC stage, the DSD stream can convert to PCM then do the
final digital to analog covert. Actually, most DAC chips doing this inside
the chip. One point need to be remember, DSD stream can't do volume
attenuation. If this chip can do digital volume control under DSD mode, then
is must converted to PCM already.

Let's go back to Spring. If Spring works in 'NOS' mode. There is no
oversampling, no conversion, just the original data doing the final digital
to analog conversion. I will not explain how it does PCM conversion, you
should already know quite well about it. There is a lot of resistor ladder
DAC, they are born to do this. I just explain how Spring can do 'discrete
DSD conversion'. Actually it is like DCS and CHORD. If you looking to DCS
and CHORD's pcb, you will find 'discrete DSD conversion' is also using
switches and precision resistors, like resistor ladder dacs. So, no matter
it is 'discrete DSD conversion' or 'discrete PCM conversion', they all use
the same discrete devices. Just work in different architecture. That makes
possible to combine these two modes in one device.

Best Regards
Jeff Zhu

...


What it comes down to is semantics or interpretation of what is "native".

 

This is why the high end Light Harmonic R2R DACs have a second delta sigma DAC inside the same chassis to do native DSD.

 

Oh no...I fear I have gone off the deep end. Officially crazy.

Quick side note, the Spring I have is like level 2.8 or something compared to the level 3 KTE that Marv got and most others, including recent reviewers, AFAIK. The current level 3 has the Audio Horizons Platinum fuse, upgraded cap near the power plug, wiring changed from copper to silver (and direct soldered to PCB vs. plug and play jacks), the silver power transformer, upgraded IEC inlet, Jensen caps, etc.

Mine did NOT come with the AH fuse, the upgraded silver wiring, or the upgraded PSU cap. I believe everything else is in place, though, compared to Level 3. I bought mine very early on, and these tweaks were added after. I won't complain, since I paid a fair chunk less than the current going rate for jumping in early.

Well, here's the part where I feel I've lost my mind. Tim sent me an AHPR fuse to try, since the one I have in my Spring is the basic kind you'll find in anything. I got home today, listened to the stock fuse for a while, swapped out for the AHPR fuse, and even switched the direction of the AHPR fuse as suggested.

I...think they sound different, even the direction of the AHPR fuse. Like, different enough to matter, if my mind does not play tricks on me. I hesitate to say it, but I felt like maybe it was easier to pick up differences with the fuse config in Spring than it was to compare the Spring with the Menuet a couple weeks back.

I remember trying fuses in a few other products in the past and never once thought there were many tangible differences. Even power cables seemed iffy to me in most things I tried.

I have a lot more listening to do with these. I have yet to reach full audio spaghettification from the nervosa black hole in this case. And I'm purposely leaving out and subjective thoughts I might have collected, because that's not my reason for writing this as of right now.

But, if I did hear something, and I can't promise I did, all bets could go out the window depending on what "level" of Spring you hear, how it's configured, what source you use, and, hell, possibly even what you're plugging it into, including the power cable. All that nonsense might possible matter in these cases.

Sitting here shaking my head because I can't believe I said any of this and feel like I might as well have told you all I got abducted by aliens or something (which I didn't).

Upside is Gungnir Multibit is still sitting there, at its price point, and the worst case nervosa you get from that is keeping it warm and maybe if you should get a Jensen XLR->RCA box for SE amps.

 

See pictures a few posts up comparing Gungnir Multibit and Holo soundstages. I don't think there's any inconsistency.

Speaker imaging is tricky. I value image stability, a strong center, with a wide listening sweet spot. This comes at the expense of stage width, which I am fine with. I don't like wide stages and I do everything in my control to limit stage width. Methods to achieve this include to toeing-in the speakers and eliminating first reflections. (I have other reasons for doing this such as getting the right FR, especially with wide-banders that can be a bit peaky). There is no wall at least for about 10 feet the right side of the right speaker. The left wall has a small loveseat with pillows set on top of the seat against the wall. Also the left front corner where the sub is also has a few pillows stacked the at corner. The window shutters serve as a diffusor and I actually go to the trouble of angling them a certain way to get the effect that I want. The way that something sounds in one speaker room may sound different in another. However the drawings that I provided do illustrate the differences between the Holo and Gungnir Multibit stages.

As for the question of resolution differences, this may come down to amplifier, transducer, and recordings. I have a variety of speakers and amps at my disposal. The ones I used were the most resolving that I had on hand, but are also one of the more SPL limited. Most speakers and amps won't resolve anywhere near good headphones with a decent amp.

 

Well, this is headed out on the loaner program tomorrow. Looking forward to hear other folks impressions under different circumstances and setups.