Home theater and multi-channel

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cspirou, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Started this thread because almost no one is talking about using their speakers with their TV. I get that people obsessed with speakers are using them primarily for dedicated stereo music. But if I had to guess I would say most people that buy speakers use them with their TV.

    So to kick this thread off, is there a difference between speakers you use for music and speakers you use to watch movies and TV shows? Do you guys tend to use your speakers with your TV or are they dedicated just for audio in another space? Is there a way to integrate our fancy DACs into anything beyond stereo?
     
  2. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    my speakers are all rounder. primary music but, can live without tv but, i have one anyways cause i casually game and watch movies and like having good sound. speakers should work versatiley across all sorts of sources blending in. that's why i always say a good speaker will reveal everything and do all things well if the source is good. no speaker for a specific thing cause that means it's not a good speaker at all. i dabbed into ht stuff when i was younger with 5.1 surround sound and found it nothing too special or go home about. with a proper stereo and room treatment you can get same 3d spatial image no problem. i remember playing fear 2 on my computer and even in stereo i had shells pop behind me, heard things from the ceilings and behind me with no surround sound processing. it's also easy to integrate your dac/interface/source to process the sound instead of your tv as well. not too hard. i do it all the time. i let my echo interface process the sound from all sources i have. just matter of hooking it up correctly. but, yea, i use my system for more than music. just my primary focus is music cause i love playing and listening music as a passion and enjoyment.
     
  3. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    I use one set of speakers at my computer for everything.
    Have a 7.1 denon hdmi receiver I picked up for $30. Cheap Polk $100 10" sub. Cheap Polk r15 rears I picked up for $50. My main fronts are my omega mini me's I picked up for $110. For music I just use my fronts and sub, but movies and games I use the whole system. Works well. Though I could do better than the Omega's for movies and games, they are great for music.
     
  4. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Great idea for a thread. My main/only rig is a video 2.0 system in my living room with the equipment listed in my profile. Main source is an Oppo BDP-103D with an Audiopraise Vanity 103HD upgrade board, using the player's built-in stereo downmix functionality, which lets me output up to 24/192 PCM from any disc/file (including from SACDs via the board's high-quality DSD-to-PCM conversion) via coaxial S/PDIF out into my Yggdrasil.

    I've posted about the Audiopraise board here and here. Using it, one could hook up four outboard stereo DACs to run a 7.1 home theater system. I'm sure Audiopraise will create a board compatible with the Oppo UDP-203 4K player set to come out later this year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  5. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    My DAC is hooked up to my "media server" (an old Thinkpad) as well as my PS4. I play music, films and games through my 2-channel rig. Video runs out to an Acer 1080p projector.

    I never liked 5-channel, primarily because most content is 2-channel, and I suspect these 5-channel receivers use DSP voodoo to pipe a band of the range back to the rear speakers (with 2-channel content, that is). The result is a strange sound, to say the least.
     
  6. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    The audiopraise seems like an excellent upgrade for those that want to use their own DACs on all channels. I believe one possible problem with using the Yggdrasil with a TV is that the jitter rejection and processing the DAC does results in a bit of a delay. Not a problem with music but could have synching issues with movies. I think for TVs and movies you can set the delay to whatever you want until they are in sync. But this isn't an option for video games where everything needs to be in real time.

    I feel like as I get more serious in this hobby that I'll acquire several pairs of speakers. At that point I might as well go for 5.1/7.1 because I don't want to just keep them in storage unused.

    One major difference between a HiFi and a home theater setup is the need for a subwoofer. For HiFi it seems optional but so many actions movies have low frequency content that you'd be missing something without it.

    While I am at it I have a question about multichannel music. I found this picture of Abbey Road studios.

    [​IMG]

    If most music out there is stereo, what exactly is the center channel for? Is it for mixing movie soundtracks?
     
  7. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Valid concern. I think I notice lip sync issues sometimes, then a few seconds later don't. I blame those issues on Netflix buffering nonsense and/or packet loss.

    The only time I had lip sync issues that were distracting was when using my PS3 to output Blu-ray moves at 24p into my Samsung F8500 with sound piped via optical into my integrated's DAC. TV's processing is also turned off, except Cinema Smooth which engages with 24p content. The PS3 did not automatically apply delay to the audio to match the post-processed video, and the result was unwatchable. No problems with Blu-ray 24p output doing the same with an Oppo (either (1) the 105 as a standalone unit and with the Yggdrasil or (2) the 103D/Audiopraise with the Yggdrasil).

    A couple of us asked Audiopraise about the lip sync issue and Yggdrasil compatibility in this thread.

    Question:
    Audiopraise response:
    My question:
    Audiopraise response:
    My update:
     
  8. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    primary yes and multi-channel music. some people sometimes do add a 3rd speaker cause they believe it'll focus the center imaging better but, i never found no point of that really with proper placement personally. but, most time in studios and mastering rooms the 3rd speaker is for center channel mixing for music and movies and games.
     
  9. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Thanks for starting this. I am struggling with this, too. Home theater was my first love back when I had a regular job and disposable income (and a nice basement to have one). But when I went back to school for a masters and am now doing the entrepreneur thing, I don't have as much time to sit down for a whole movie. Having a good headphone rig at my desk has allowed me to rediscover my love for music, so I really want my speaker set up to do well at music as well. But I also miss a nice home theater. Great surround sound really let's me dig into a movie. Too tight of a budget and space to build two setups, so I need something that can pull double duty. I know home theater receivers are poo-poo'd in the audiophile kingdom for music setups, but I am serious considering getting something like a Marantz SR5010 and hope it can pull good double duty.
     
  10. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I really feel like DVDs and Blu-ray movies should have a binaural mix for headphones. With the ability to have multiple audio tracks I don't think they need additional hardware. In the meantime maybe this is a pretty good option for those that want multichannel with headphones.

    https://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1000
     
  11. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Home theater was where I started but as I've moved into different spaces I've found that setting up a 5.1/7.1 arrangement that both looks and sounds good, without trailing wires everywhere, can be quite a tall order. These days I'd rather have a nice 2.1 setup and call it a day. The WAF is much higher that way and I find I'm not really missing the side and rear channels. I can't think of a movie that lives or dies on the strength of its use of rear and surround sounds.

    Gaming can be more immersive with good surround sound, but for that I mostly use wireless headphones.
     
  12. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    @Merrick - you want Orcas, right? They used to offer a 5.1 set. You can probably find a center channel used or maybe ask them to make one for you.

    https://goo.gl/images/pb9Oqw
     
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Interesting! But I'm not using the Orcas in the living room, I have a separate room for my 2-channel.
     
  14. NekoAudio

    NekoAudio Acquaintance

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    For me, speakers for home theater use imposes an extra requirement: they need to be fairly sensitive and capable of high power handling because I sometimes watch movies at reference levels. That usually means ~91dB sensitivity and ~400W power handling for the mains, ~89dB for the surrounds since they're not as far away and usually less demanding channels compared to the mains.

    But at the moment the HT main speakers are also the 2-channel reference speakers.
     
  15. zonto

    zonto Friend

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  16. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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  17. xLn

    xLn Acquaintance

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    I use a pioneer elite receiver with a 7.2 set up of infinity reference series floorstanders etc. and two svs pc2000 subs.

    Actually fell in love with the wharfedales so hard on my turntable I'm about to pull them into the home theatre room and move the infinity set up dispersed around the house.

    Plan on using an onkyo rz810 going forward in home theatre for some more punch. Pioneer is sabre
     
  18. zonto

    zonto Friend

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  19. jhaider

    jhaider Acquaintance

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    We have screens attached to all of our audio systems, two with TVs and one with an external computer monitor. In the main system the TV is mounted high so the center channel can be at ear height. One system is multichannel with a TV, the others stereo. I pick speakers based on their performance with music, so yes they are used with the TVs! I also buy multichannel music recordings whenever something I like is available in multichannel. Most recently, the Temple of the Dog boxed set. AIX also does lots of good ones.

    I think any speaker that sounds good with a variety of music will be fine with movies, but speakers that are fine with movies may not fare as well when one's attention is focused solely on the sound output of the speakers.

    I am not a big movie watcher. Most of the really great writing and good acting seems to have migrated to television, and good writing is more valuable to me than special effects. Though for a variety of reasons I am planning to update the multichannel room to 7.1.4-channel soon. As soon as I can get my wife to agree on a quartet of height speakers! Models rejected on aesthetic grounds were Mirage OMD-5 and Tannoy AMS 5DC. If KEF had a height version (no Atmos elevation circuit) of their R50 that would likely pass muster. She likes "clean lines" over curves, no matter how much I protest about diffraction.

    I never thought about integrating "fancy DACs" into my system. In the main system, I go the other direction: AVR DAC feeds into an ADC for the DSP and another unknown DAC! I don't have or want "fancy DACs." I don't hear differences between "'midfi'DACs" and "fancy DACs." That is with matched levels. With unmatched levels there are usually differences in everything!

    The primary benefit of subwoofers (plural) is smoother upper bass. That is more beneficial for music than movies. For one seat, full range speakers with good DSP room correction below 500Hz can work very well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  20. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Anyone have thoughts/experience with sound quality for budget home theater receivers (sub $500)? A ton have all the features I want at the price I want, but most reviews don't really dive into actual sound quality (maybe they all are mediocre in the same way at this level?). My main curiosity is around the HDAM outputs on Marantz receivers. I know Denon and Marantz are the same company, but do the HDAM modules make much of a difference? I have a pair of Energy RC-10s and an RC-LCR for my front channels. Pretty laid back, but even sound.
     

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