Hypex NCore400

So thanks to @MrTeaRex we have a chance to try these out. The monoblock kits arrived at my door from the Netherlands in two days. They are super easy to install, you could do this without a solder iron, which explains why the KIT is so expensive compared to a finished one. Basically you get the NC400 module and a SMPS600 PSU for each monoblock. The chassis is completely silk screened and ready for you to drop everything in. This is too easy.

I intended to actually have to build this and then send it out to the next person, as i don't own lower efficiency speakers to use with this.





Then i decided - fuk it ill just connect 200w @ 8ohm into my HE BLH fostex even though this isn't ideal using a cheap passive preamp to control the volume. The noise floor going to block out details as a result of the mismatch of high sensitivity and huge power/gain. Take it with a grain of salt hopefully someone down the line has a more ideal setup for this than me.

Some overall notes compared to the SET DHT amps (2a3 and 300b) i usually run with these speakers:

*Probably the best SS i've heard in a long time with plenty of potential. If i ever have a need this kind of power i may be looking at the higher level ncore products. Doesn't even sound class D. No heat, no mosfet haze and bass coloration, not dead sounding like them paralleled small signal BJT.
*Bold Bass Slams Hard and Tight..expected contrast the no negative feedback sound on my tube amps. Much better upper bass from these BK20 which normally don't make very good quality upper bass or lower mid.
*Blackness that seems to compensate for my Yggdrasil's lack of (and grayness). I can also put my ear right up to those 100+db/w super tweeters, Nothing. Supposedly these measure really well, i never looked at the measurements honestly. It's not a giant HP-1.
*Good clarity. Confirmed i have a slight veil in my 300b amp. One of the strong points of this amp.
*Not bright, nothing offensive, maybe a little bit warm. Grainless and Not Raw sounding, possibly a little too smoothed over as some albums that i know sound like crap actually sound tolerable, lively, and fun. Might not be the most transparent thing...on the polite safe side.
*Good depth especially in the center and average separation "a little bit torpedo3 like". Stage isnt flat like most SS amps.
**Devoid of plankton, microdetails, ambiance, tube distortion compared to the tube amps i was using. Likely also a product of not a good match for my system. Wanted to clarify that this note is relative compared to my other amps, which excel at plankton and low level detail retrieval. The amp is by no means deficient in absolute sense.

This amp mainly commits sins of omission. Very solid. Wish they would sell higher Ncore models in kit form.

edit:
There could be a place for a lower output version of this amp in my setup...the fact that i think i could get away with using subs because the bass and overall range is high enough quality means i don't have to compensate/compromise with high pass filters to integrate the bass is an important advantage.

 

Ncore Class D stuff is impressive. If the 1200 series were available in kit form, I think Class D would supplant a whole lot of Class A stuff out there.

I'd like to get these monos next, if possible. @MrTeaRex had chatted me about it. As much as I love the Almarro 318b in my office rig, I really wouldn't mind finding a heat-free successor. I'm skeptical, but it's worth a shot.

 

are these on a loaner tour?

I would really like to hear them too if at all possible.

..dB

 

Nice to have SBAF ears sample this. Unlike other Class D amps, this is discrete as opposed to a chip amp. These amp modules are also in the Kii 3 that @zachchen1996 has.

 

These aren't on an official loaner tour, just passing through a few people on their way from @Jh4db536 to me. After all, I haven't had a chance to compare them in my own system yet. If they do go on tour, I'll go through proper channels with the esteemed @Vansen. Glad to see there is some interest in Ncores.

 

I have a pair of the NC400 kits that I'd be willing to loan out. Mine aren't in regular use; even when they perform well, I prefer the AHB2 driving the same loads. I think I offered them to @Marvey a few months ago, but I never got a follow-up on that.

 

Vs the AHB2 would be what I'm interested in as well. Can you expand on that a little more? What loads were you driving?

 

That is very likely, yes. At least mids and up.
I'd like to know what do you think of these in bass driving duty as I remember these being quite good at that.
It would make for interesting comparison vs Vidar (as you say is great for bass).
The NC400-s certainly do not have dynamic qualities that JLH amp has.

 

Here are the loudspeakers that I've paired them with:

• Sonus Faber Amati Futura - (90dB, 4 Ohms, but drop below 3 at times)
• Dynaudio Contour 30 - (87dB, 4 Ohms. Haven't seen measurements, but I get the impression from trying different amps that it's an easier load than the Futuras)
• SEAS Loki MkIII - (82dB, 8 Ohms)
• HiVi DIY3.1 - (88dB, 4 Ohms)

I didn't really like how either the NC400s or the AHB2 drive the Amati Futuras. Both of them seemed to do the amplifier equivalent of "TV demo mode", with the NC400s showing off their transducer control and the AHB2 showing you how quiet it can be, but both in a way that seems very exaggerated and at the cost of microdynamics, texture, detail, and soundstage. It's like the NC400s render everything with thick permanent marker, while the AHB2 allows small/quiet details to fade too quickly into an absurdly black background.

I *really* enjoy the way that the AHB2 drives the Contour 30s. When I'm not futzing around new DIY speakers or electronics, my current default setup for driving these speakers is the PS Audio DirectStream into my build of @tomchr 's differential preamp into the AHB2. I don't have much to criticize about how this combination sounds, but I'm still slightly startled or pleasantly surprised by how it renders sounds with rich, ringing harmonics like electric guitar feedback, whistling, bells, acoustic stringed instruments, etc. I still come across instances of these sounds on recordings where they resonate in an eerily real way where I had previously assumed that that kind of harmonic information just wasn't on the recording. The NC400s driving the C30s, in comparison, have a hint of that "permanent marker" presentation that they have with the Amati Futuras (though not nearly as bad), don't do any of that harmonic magic that the AHB2 does, and have a more narrow, focused, and flat soundstage. Everything I played through the NC400s into the C30s had a "same-y-ness" to it that made it hard to tell the difference between different sources.

I was actually a little surprised when I paired the Loki MkIIIs with the NC400s. This combo actually had the sort of staging and detail that I would have expected from the NC400 measurements and Hypex reputation. Even then, I still preferred the AHB2 driving these speakers. In comparison to the AHB2, the NC400s sounded a little (though not much!) hard-edged or grainy up top and not as nuanced in general.

I've only had the HiVi DIY3.1 kits assembled for about 48 hours, so I'm still running them in, but my initial impressions between the NC400 and the AHB2 are similar to my experience with the Lokis. They're rated at 4 Ohms, but they don't really dip below 4 and spend most of their time above 6, which makes me wonder if the NC400s just don't do well with lower impedance loads.

 

One thing I can safely say is that Class D is getting better and better and Hypex stuff is probably top tier right now. Mr Putzey surely knows what's what.

 

Thanks .

Based on some comments, probably not the sound that I was hoping for but still curious.

..dB

 

Even it might not sound like something you'd fancy, good Class D is something to at least try out. I encourage you when an opportunity strikes.

 

Got a lot going on at home right now, thus the mess. But these guys are so unassuming as you can see.

Just got them hooked up today and am really enjoying them a lot. Very clean. I had been hearing a bit of grain initially, but tweaked my phono settings a bit and now it's nearly at bay. I'd say there is probably some non-harmonic distortion around the upper mids still, but I can more than live with it.

Nits aside, overall, the sound is just clean, clear, open, dynamic. For me it is detailed enough, but not the last word there for everyone. Other nits aside from the above would be a smidge too much leading edge like most digital amps and perhaps less so than most. And a lacking compared to tubes in terms of depth and layering. But certainly not flat, either.

In many ways this gives my Almarro 318b a serious run for its money. Again just think: general cleanliness, but not analytical, not fatiguing (most of the time).

What are these things going for? 1300ish? I think it excellent for the money, and very good regardless of price. Tea, the mini tour may just end here. Haha.

Edit: A caveat to everything I just said could be that I'm using a pretty good tube preamp in front of the Ncores.

 

Would be interested in jumping on a class D loaner if it happens, to hear it as an alternative to my Class A space heater M-22 amp. Especially for general use such as movies, listening to the radio, watching YouTube, etc, where premium sound quality isn't as important.

@Jh4db536, as you're in LA, do you still have the monos, or if not, will you be getting them back soon? Also, where did you buy the kit from? Thanks!

I read some favorable comparisons of Crown XLS class D to Hypex NCore, have you guys heard Crown power amps?

 

The main draw of the XLS is that they provide a lot of power for cheap and weigh 10 lbs. It's great for schmucks like me who have to haul racks of gear in and out of my car and flights of stairs, but if I were doing a home or permanent install I'd go a little higher up the line.

 

Very informative, thank you.

 

Alright, I've shipped away the NC400 monoblocks to the next in line. I definitely enjoyed them, but at some point during my week with them, it became clear that I wouldn't want to live with them long term. I was curious how they ($1400ish) would compete against my Almarro 318b (think I paid $1800). But now with them gone, and the Almarro back in play, it's like reuniting with a long lost friend.

While I still maintain they are impressive in many ways, in the end what got to me was the weird distortion-fuckery in the upper mids on through the treble. I was able to subdue it somewhat with cart loading and gain setting adjustments initially. But while you can run from it, it turned out that you just can't hide. And usually about a hour in to listening, I'd be irritated beyond my threshold. On the other hand, one additional parting note that I didn't notice initially: they have a rather wide sound stage. Wider than my Almarro. This is particularly noticeable with "stereo" jazz recordings with hard panned instruments. The Almarro usually puts them directly in line with the speaker, while NC400 at times rendered them outside the speaker laterally (i.e. to the left of the left channel, or right of the right channel). An interesting difference in staging, I guess. I doubt it's accurate. But I kinda liked it.

Oh one more thing... I was already more familiar with the NC1200s, which definitely don't have the upper mid distortion problem - or at least to my ears not to nearly the same degree. But, those are more or less unobtainium, or certainly damn hard to justify at their price. But if you ever have the opportunity to hear them ... definitely give them a listen. They're really good. Still, though, I think there are many people who would be happy with NC400s. Compared to your run of the mill $1k-ish SS amps out there, these do have their strengths as I previously mentioned.

 

Solid state amps aren't valves and they never will be. Nicely made Class A can resemble glowing glass to a degree, as a FirstWatt F7 owner I know that. But class D isn't able to pull this stunt off. Besides, what's the point in going after class D if one is into valves in general? Each amplifier targets different problems, it does different tasks.

This is not a critique of what you wrote, not at all. I merely want to emphasize that Class D can handle speakers which won't work with valves and having said that, I'm not surprised at all that you enjoyed your tube amp more.

 

I am willing to bet that if NC1200 modules were generally accessible, a lot of people would ditch large high power push pull type tube amps. The NC1200s are that good, in my experience. So I don't quite agree there. The problem, at least for now, with NC1200 is not that they are Class D, IMO. The problem is the modules are OEM only, and the OEMs mark them up something fierce. @HitmanFluffy is also familiar with them, and might be able to chime in. What I really wanted to see was how close the NC400s could come to their bigger brother, especially in my system, and whether they could compete against low power Class A tubes. In an office scenario, sitting in fairly close reach, the nc400 reprieve from the heat was appealing. But they gave up too much to be worthy.