Jude E-peens Tyll and Gaslights Us with Alternative Facts

Jabs at your ego, and your comments regarding the community aside

I agree with you here, I liked your Cake Shop example, deviations from the norm are what some people like. And seek out, some may want something different and... un orthodox and other wise... wasteful in the eyes of many. Imo Head Fi would have you believe that the MDR Z1R is the BEST "insert cake flavor here" out there! here at If you like "insert flavor here" that's fine but do you want a big fat Up charge because it's sold by and developed by Sony

Chance are if you want a Foie Gras iced, saffron cake topped with Cavair, you can assemble one your self for less than what you could pay Sony for their "glorious cake".

@ButtUglyJeff I've heard a modded MDR Z7, it sounded FREAKING awesome! Wasn't my cup of tea, but the guy that modded it did a hell of a job imo

Assuming the MDR Z1R is just that... a modded MDR Z7 with "luxury" materials... yea it does piss me off that it get's so much praise. It's a bit of an insult to the market place, and really I've love to see some one do to the MDR Z7 what many have done to the Fostex T50RP, though fat chance that will ever happen. Sony allowing some one to use their GLORIOUS driver, to build something better than what Jude would have us believe is THE closed back to own this year

Also on another note... how did the R10 compare to the Audio Technica L3000? How does the MDR Z1R compare to the L3000? I've heard it was a REAL BASSY Flag ship... though it's never discussed much any more, in fact I'd really like to see Audio Technica launch a proper Wood Back Flag ship... I still like my W1000X, even with it's odd Sound Stage

 

If you're talking about audio gear, I would say no. The most fundamental thing in audio is that it's "audio reproduction." The most fundamental difference between cake and audio gear is the former is a scratch made expression of creativity, the latter is there to reproduce the creative effort of an artist. If you want to draw analogies, audio gear is like a machine that you can feed a recipe into and it spits out cake just like the writer of the recipe originally intended. Audio gear, IMHO, should first and foremost honor the artist's intent (f**k Dre for co-opting the perfect marketing cutline for audio); it should be neutral and, if anything, remarkably responsive and truthful.

So, if it's not an audio reproducer but a creator of an alternate sound, what is it? A synthesizer? A violin? A bottle of wine?

I've got a lot more to say, but I think I need to write it down and post it on IF.

Not even remotely! I did the review because I felt Sony fell remarkably short of being able to faithfully reproduce music, and at that price I would do so again in a heartbeat. If anything, I'm going to get tougher. I don't need another editor in between my music and me. If I want an alternate sound I'll break out my EQ and edit it myself, thanks.

 

I agree that totl gear should be a machine, that delivers the artists creation,

but I at the same time enjoy hearing the distortion and changes that a Manufacturer can make to the music. Some albums sound TERRIBLE on Neutral headphones [bad mix, bad master and poor recording quality] and a nice musical colorful headphones makes them really pleasurable!

but at the same time, paying THOUSANDS of dollars to listen to a distorted reproduction of music is... beyond my scope of appreciation at that price point I would prefer a more perfect machine

 

Exactly Tyll. This is why you write for a living and I don't. The goal, for me is to hear what the artist intended. Like it or not. To me it's a lot like a painting or sculpture. Do you want to put on glasses that change the look of the art they wanted to express? I really don't want to have gear that makes a 78 RPM record sound like a hi-rez recording. Or appreciably change the sound that was recorded in the studio. Too many great recordings have been limited to death. Why? I can only assume the profit motive. It sounds better on portable gear, but really kills the original intent of the artist. I wish the industry would work on getting a headphone to sound as close to a full range neutral sounding speaker, although due to physics that's not completely possible. Then let people DSP it however they want to. Just like the tone controls on prehistoric pre-amps.

 

I had a chance to intern with two local recording studio's here in Myrtle Beach, one under the care of a established local and one by Robert Honablue. Robert, worked for Sony and had worked with and developed personal relationships with artists like Dave Brubeck and George Benson He eventually opened up his own school in NY, and got away from it for health reasons. I got a chance to listen to some of his work, and it was AMAZING. I was FLOORED, his monitors were HUGE and sounded fantastic! I wasn't smart enough to ask him what they were... but they were VERY impressive. More so than a pair of Maggie 3.7s I heard recently. He retired in SC, and wanted to open a school here but couldn't get it off the ground.

Our local on the other hand... was not impressive. His Studio was modest, and his monitors... his play back and mixing station sounded lack luster... I was by no means impressed but he knowing this area, knowing this demographic and understanding how to make a profit... gear his studio accordingly. As a Sound Engineer I think he knew way more than enough, I learned a little from him until I came across the chance to work with Robert, as producer...he was very much on point. Quality aside, he knows HOW to produce a record that will sell he knew how to produce music to entertain people, and running a business I can't discredit him for that! At the end of the day, despite the sheer quality of what Honablue can and does... it wasn't quality that turned a profit for him. At least not where I live...

I would love to see the market shift back towards quality, I think the wave of convince offered by mobile tech shifted this industry in a direction that didn't value quality as much as convince. I see some positive changes, and let's hope there are more to come, I doubt Sony will be the ones to usher in a focus back on quality over convenience and "preference." I can't say who will, but I think as technology moves forward the focus may shift back to what the artists and away from always pleasing the listener

In restaurants you have three kinds of chef's [prices aside]. The Tradesman, he can cook the quickest his menu is designed for convenience. Your welcome to change it how you like quick easy food... think iHop, then the technician, who impress you with his many talents. You can make changes to the Technicians menu, he doesn't mind accommodating you at all, but speed isn't his first concern, think... Outback Steak House or Apple Bee's.

Lastly you have the artist, this chef makes all the decisions and your simply honor'd to be eating his food. My favorite example of a chef like this is in Wilmington NC at the Tokyo Deli, husband and wife cook what has been the BEST Japanese food I've EVER had. It's priced middle of the road, and he doesn't change a damn thing for you. An it's PHENOMENAL, as close to the real thing as I think I can get!

Similar with music imo, some companies produce music that's catchy and enjoyable. Song's aren't long or complicated, simple and straight forward. Listen to it with anything, eq it how ever doesn't matter. It's music, quick and cheap and widely available think music mastered for Pandora/Radio. Others take a little more time, and offer a wider array of options, it's not as widely available but can still change with your system and be enjoyable, music mastered for Tidal/CD.

Finally you have music as art, Mastered at the pleasure of the artist. They dictate everything, and we do our best to build systems that hold true to the artists intent, Music mastered for what ever the Artist/Label want's to release it on.

Price aside, imo the industry right now places more emphasis on the first two markets. Music as prepared by the tradesman or the Technician. The MDR Z1R seems like embodies the idea of the market. Where as the HD 800 focus on Music as Art... as transparent as possible.

I hope that made sense, and I hope we can see the market focus back on the artists and less one those of us listening... maybe in other area's that's the case but here... so many local labels release terrible catchy music... it's a real joy to find some one creating something really beautiful and working hard to capture and distribute while retaining a very high quality

for kicks and giggles, I'd really like to work as a sound Engineer... as I want to help bring more art into this world, capture as best I can and help a band... share their soul, their vision their art with as many people as possible. Hopefully when I'm able to do that, the big names will be making headphones to capture all the work we put in

 

At a recent meet I got the chance to hear these Sony's on a pretty decent setup.
At first the bass was striking and involving.
Then the 'closed can' effect became evident, although it was a smooth effect and was the best reduction of the 'closed can' effect I've ever heard.
Then the top end was overly emphasized, and not in a smooth way.

Then I noticed it was just 'one note bass', and that was the kicker for me.

JJ

 

Every time you say "different sound signatures" I hear "the astonishingly wide array of ways things can go wrong."

"Not well received by the majority of people" sounds like a pretty good definition of "wrong" considering the subjective nature of audio evaluation. It's my job to get it right for "the majority of people." I can't possibly be right for everyone, so I try to give good advice for most. While Marv and Hands and I and pretty much all of these guys will give somewhat differing opinions, we'll all have the same motive, we're aware of a lot of variables and are doing our best to split the difference for people we give advice to. What we're not doing (hopefully) is falling pray to group think or buyer's confirmation bias or social niceties.

I can tell you in the world of speakers that Sean Olive often sums up the tens of millions of dollars he's spent on researching subjective opinion by saying, "With measurements we can tell with 87% accuracy how people will feel about the sound of a pair of speakers."

These aren't just your average Joe listener either, it's a well rounded sampling of all demographic groups. He's even said there's not much difference when you compare things group to group. With trained listeners, he says his prediction accuracy is much higher.

Now I think Sean tends significantly more to the objective side than I, and I sometimes cringe when he says some things, but he's done the no shit-research to prove the things he says. For example, I don't like his headphone target curve in some ways (over emphasizes 600-2.5kHz and 4-8kHz by a few dB) but I do understand why it's drawn the way it is. I'll also note that that target curve is just a preliminary curve they developed to put in the mix of curves to test. That I'm aware of, he hasn't done testing to finesse it.

At any rate, I've got no problem with folks wearing rose colored granny glasses, or high tech, multi-layered, micro-coated, prescription motorcycling glasses (I have some and love them), strokes for folks. The problem arises when the hippy chick in the sun dress looks at you dead serious over her little spectacles and says, "You really need to do some ear candleing now while the moon is in Virgo."

 

Oh, and I'm not really talking about head-fi/SBAF, our biases and bullshit are impossible to escape so it's everywhere in some for or another.

"I've never met a human that wasn't incredibly beautiful and fatally flawed" - Me

(The proportions may vary person-to-person and place-to-place, though.)

 

this is what I enjoy about being here on SBAF, and reading over @Tyll Hertsens work at Innerfedeilty, in addition to @gbeast's website among others.

It's what I'm hopefully contributing too

 

Hell no , we are not group think! I have never met a group of people (I am taking about those that started Changstar) that is so honest about their opinions, but takes no offense if you don't like it or is meh for you. Are we on an adventure to what is posibble in sound reproduction? That's why I am here.

 

One thing that newcomers seem to have difficulties grasping is that this community, at the very start of its existence, was founded on a simple predicate ( @Marv, please feel free to correct me if necessary) :

Measurements have a correlation to how we hear headphones (or iems/speakers). They are not perfect, far from it, but that doesn't mean they don't give us a partial picture of what the sound can be. An odd measured sound characteristic will be audible most of the time, in this case the bass distortion will contribute to the "one note bass" comment above.

What this predicate means, is that personal preferences don't enter in the process. Hence why wildly differing opinions can coexist here without conflict.

I don't see eye to eye with part of the people here, but I firmly believe we should head towards a more objective reviewing method. Once our personal taste is calibrated to the measurements, it's a tremendous help in upgrade/sidegrade choice.

 

Not expecting this to last long. I think he's just too much of a megalomaniac to deal with criticism in a constructive way.

 

Brave soul...

 

This made me laugh...

"Jude is not a full-time journalist yet and is not subject to such ethical conduct."

 

I had to take a jab at that one, that's just too good to let go.

 

Haha... did the post survive?

I didn't even know the meaning of "epeen" before.

That is just an arsehole lousy post. I am so lost for words that anyone would attack Tyll, of all people, like that that... expletives!

@Marvey's let-me-correct-that-for-you nails it. And is obvious to anybody except a headfi sheep.

I seem to remember disliking one of your posts. I have no idea why, all I can say now, hat in hand, is Respect! I've certainly liked many of your subsequent posts and made a point of pressing that button.

Quite. That would actually be Head-fi he's talking about, right? as per @Marvey's later post which I thought I'd quoted

Ahh... The Lost Meaning of HiFi. High Fidelity.

Every time someone says "House Sound" i hear "designed to be wrong in a different way."

I respect choice. I respect the freedom to put subwoofers on one's head or to listen to scratchy squeaks --- or even boosted base and treble, which is sometimes actually needed for low volume or ear-failure compensation.

But let's start from the [metaphorical, at least] flat frequency response of honesty: hifi is high fidelity. Thereafter, let the market make and the listeners buy according to their taste and choice, and let all enjoy. But be informed about what they are enjoying and why.