LH Labs Geek Out GO2A, V2, V2+, Infinity and SE Impressions and Reviews

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by jexby, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Sounds great. Any possible way to get a muting on pops? Sometimes with the andros directly plugged into balanced on highest gain....it actually hurts. I know Larry is the sabre master but any way he could try a different chip? Go v2+ sounds very good and the least sabre of sabre implementations, there is still just a tad of it and wondering if that's a thought for future products :)
     
  2. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    Are you talking about the pop when you turn it on? If so, the user manual says this "When the Geek Out V2 is plugged into the computer there may be a popping noise sent through the headphone outputs. This is caused by the charging of the power caps. This is a conscious design decision to not add a buffer as it would affect the sound quality."

    Also, "..be sure to unplug headphones and/or power down the connected preamp/amp/active speakers to avoid any potential damage.
    LH Labs will not be held responsible for any damage to equipment due to this design implementation."
     
  3. Hola

    Hola Epeen Swinger, Ph.D

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    Interesting. I thought it was done long time ago. Called LH Labs GO2 Pro. Targeted at China's market but loads of SQ promises as usual. Also in metal chassis as you said:
    https://z.jd.com/project/details/67316.html

    And unlike most crowdfunding projects LH labs have launched, they managed to get products to backers very quickly. All done with 45 days apparently.
     
  4. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    No it pops everytime you change sampling rates....
     
  5. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    That go2 pro looks really nice...makes the go v2+ look bad in comparison...zerodeefex will they have chassis upgrades rolling anytime soon? I'm actually quite frustrated at all the crowdfunding delays to the original backers....for over a year, talking about chassis problems.....get a plastic chassis....then we see a better chassis provided to people in china? paint me disappointed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  6. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    Good to know. It already sounds great to me. Any improvement would be a bonus. I would guess it's reasonably far along the exponential curve at this point.
     
  7. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Glad that you have my old unit kkkk I'm just a bit mad about this chassis.....after its been delivered over 1.5 years late....on the excuse of a better chassis...only for crowdfunders in china to get better chassis. Ugh....leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Its pretty shady.
     
  8. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Caveat: I don't work for LH Labs or Light Harmonic but I am on the board. My opinions are my own.

    Nothing was done a long time ago, Larry just got a pair of Andromeda a few weeks ago.

    With regard to product differences in other markets: I suggested to Larry that he test potential new vendors, supply chain partners and technologies in markets where there is a much higher emphasis placed on features or cutting edge technology and consumers are accepting of product lines that are constantly in flux. That being said, if a vendor or technology proves stable, it could be possible that it moves to more stable markets but there must be a track record of delivery and quality before that happens.

    Upgrades are a terrible program for the company and lead to a lot of consumer confusion. The V2+ is an awesome product and stands on it's own.

    The team has been struggling to find better chassis vendors that will produce anything for LH in an MOQ of under 50,000 units. It looks like you not only have the better chassis that has been well tested but you have the analog upgrades that came with the newer V2+ revision. I understand you might be frustrated, but there will always be newer and better on the horizon and life will suck for you if find the need to compare your e-peen with others constantly.
     
  9. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I'm sorry zerodeefex, but I don't think I can agree.

    Yes the team is struggling to find better chassis vendors, but that's what everyone in the industry has to do, so I don't find that excuse professional.

    I am glad I got a "good" GO V2+, with the new upgrades and chassis, but it startles me that there are other backers and people who invested in the product who didn't get the same quality. QC also seems to be a bit of an issue.

    The chassis was the main excuse they used for over a year and half.....let me say that again.....1.5 years. I don't think it sat well with me and still doesn't sit well with me.

    It gets really shady that they started another crowdfunder in china with a metal chassis when my product wasn't delivered(after waiting 1.5 years.)
    Yet they keep sending out the plastic chassis to backers? They knowingly had a metal chassis in the works, but decided it was ok to ship the backers with plastic ones......after complaining about chassis delay for 1.5 years?

    Had Hola not linked the crowdfunder, I wouldn't even have known about this shadiness.

    It has nothing to do with e-peen waving.After someone promises you something, and comes up with excuses for a year and half, then delivers you a plastic product. Then you realize behind your back, he was also promising someone else the same thing, but delivers a metal product to a crowdfunder within 45 days.

    I'm really gonna have to just call them downright shady. If they want to fix this wrong, they should upgrade everyone's chassis to metal.
    (I see everyone shitting on Hifiman for upgrading from he1000 v1 to HE1000v2, but its pretty much the same thing)

    I don't really feel so "lucky" with my product because I was in fact one of the last backers to receive the product. To even get them to deliver I had to open 5 support tickets.

    I can't call the GO V2+ Infinity an awesome product on its own. It has too many quirks...like pops with sampling rate, no volume control and QC issues.

    I in fact cannot recommend to anyone to buy it at the retail price of $500 and $649 dollars in its glorious awesome plastic chassis, while others crowd funded for much less and got a metal chassis.

    In fact, having already upgraded the chassis, they should have updated their website to allow new customers to have the better case, instead of selling them plastic ones at MSRP.

    I think most of the owners here are backers of the product.

    Also the LH Labs brand name is so tarnished with QC problems and shadiness, there is no faith from anyone to buy the product. The Product has no value....you can't even get a GO v2+ Inf to sell for $300 anymore. That's less than what you paid for at crowdfunding prices and I don't see any awesomeness about that.

    I also have to mention none of the other LH labs product will sell for even less than crowdfunding prices, yet alone MSRP.

    Just because it has good sound quality doesn't forgive all wrongs.

    I also find it troubling that Larry is thinking about working on a GO v3, when he still hasn't fully delivered on his other campaigns yet. He should be working on trying to fulfill backers who have been waiting for 3-4 years. I am sorry but my feelings is all their products are/will be obsolete against the competition.

    SO with all that said I think you zerodeefex, are biased for LH labs, and naturally so.

    I can't believe I had to spell everything out like this for someone like you to see there are some major problems......INCLUDING the new metal chassis, and trying to sell us on the GO V3 optimized for the andromeda.

    Its not about upgraditis or e-peen waving...its just wrong.
     
  10. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I hope LH Labs moves away from crowdfunding. It's not a sustainable long term model and it can lead to a lot of resentment.
     
  11. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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  12. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    And what does the "Pro" signify? Is that the old "+"? So this is a GO2A+ SE in the old nomenclature?

    Marketing/Branding seem to be doing a drunken reel...
     
  13. imackler

    imackler Key Lime Pie Infected Aberdeen Wings Spy

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  14. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    I can't help but wonder if Chinese markets being more willing to tolerate this sort of crap is driving this behavior. Hifiman seem to think so, and the Chinese LHL crowdfunding suggests they realize they are burning out the US market and that China looks like the easy way out. We (the western world) may not matter quite as much as we like to think.
     
  15. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Does that GO2Pro have a lower noise floor for sensitive IEMs like the Andromeda?
     
  16. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I don't know if the Chinese market is an easy market because it is highly competitive. Because if you checked the crowdfunding, not many units were sold. I also wonder why an SE is getting a red case this time. They do have the pale golden enclosure too.

    for 380 upgrade + shipping that's a Modi Multibit+ RPI3....last time I checked zerodeefex's opinion Modi Multibit> GO2.......which means 409 i payed for infinity plus 380= $789?

    Its quite expensive. Will wait to hear back if it can outperform Modi Multibit+ RPI3, and if it also has a fixed ground. I can't use my 3.5mm TRRS to Dual Xlr cable because of balanced problems.

    I can't believe an upgrade email comes after I complain........its unbelievable. Think I'm staying off this one. The difference is probably quite minimal going from infinity to SE....probably 1-3% for $380, which is more than any v2+ infinity is selling for....They should also give Go V2+SE people a free chassis upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  17. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    I wonder what the real difference is between the GO V2+ Inf versus GO V2Pro SE? The dual femto clocks and metal chassis look nice for sure, but will the SQ be significantly improved? @zerodeefex any thoughts on the V2Pro SE? Cheers
     
  18. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    If you think I'm not the most critical here, you're mistaken. Larry gets more negative feedback from me than the rest of the internet combined. I'll post more later but I've never been a fan of crowdfunding and have been skeptical of anything 3D printed and have made these points abundantly clear to the team. My advice has clearly been to avoid preorders or crowdfunding altogether and to sell products once channel fill has been achieved.

    Again I don't work for LH Labs and I don't make decisions for the company nor have I accepted any formalized payment to date. I've done a lot of work in consumer electronics and e-commerce and all I can do is advise them based off my experience.

    This being said, you clearly have a mix of relevant points and emotional reaction in your post. I don't have the time to address all of it and, frankly, I'm not here to work PR. You're looking for answers or some kind of recompense for your bad experiences with the company which is fine but I can't validate you. Frankly, in your shoes, I'd stop worrying about what LH Labs is up to and I'd find other products to focus on.

    I can say there were some exceedingly dumbass decisions being made by folks who are no longer on the team. Also, I've worked in consumer electronics long enough to know that pivoting from an existing path is almost impossible when you're a small company. It takes at minimum 18 months to bring a complex fully realized product to market assuming everything goes smoothly and Larry has learned from his experiences in assuming otherwise. This doesn't make him great at supply chain and logistics; in fact I would say his strength is as a software and electrical engineer in the product design phase and it's been team members who have had to shoulder the burden of getting better at managing the supply chain for their lineup.

    LH Labs is moving closer to something good and I have been nudging them in a positive direction for a while. Some customers will stay away forever but I'm hoping as things improve the folks who get their products will be pleasantly surprised. Honestly, the final the metal plate + plastic version of the V2+ is a significantly better product than the original V2+ promise of a 3D printed chassis. Larry ate a lot of the cost to make customers whole out of his own pocket. I stick with him because he's a dear friend and fundamentally wants to make awesome portable gear. He's also one of the genuinely nicest guys I've met in the hobby.

    All V2+ orders should have been fulfilled before GO2Pro was shipping. It would have been IMPOSSIBLE to get the GO2Pro chassis to the people of the original campaign without incurring significant additional delays. There was no certainty in the supply of the chassis outside a super limited run and I frankly would not have advised it be used for folks who were part of the original campaign due to uncertainty with regard to it's quality with the thousands of V2+ PCBs that were sitting around waiting for a chassis. It looks like it's been validated and has proven stable but I don't have any real information about it.

    Additionally, there is no GOV3 work occurring. There IS platform work done to see if they can improve existing products through firmware upgrades. Even if there was work being done, you're naive to think that the lead engineer/CEO of a company should be working on fulfillment and logistics of products when it's out of his hands. Larry has a mandate from me that he should be focused on engineering and partnerships only. He should NOT be focused on ME, supply chain or operations given his relative lack of experience in those fields.

    With regard to improvements in the SE version of products, the improvements are subtle in my opinion. @Bill-P and @jexby preach their virtues. I do believe the SE products represent the very best cost is no object portable DAC family on the market but I wouldn't recommend them as a replacement for desktop gear.
     
  19. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Glad to hear you're trying to steer Larry away from crowdfunding. That was becoming a real albatross around the company's neck.

    How do you feel the Pro compares to the ZX2 by the way?
     
  20. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I haven't heard the Pro. I prefer my GO2A SE and GOV2+ SE to the ZX2 in terms of technicalities, particularly resolution and macrodynamics. Additionally, they play nicely with a much wider range of headphones. I wouldn't dream of driving my HD800 or the Utopia out of the ZX2. I'm happy to do so right out of the GO2A SE, though.

    That being said, I think the ZX2 is a great all in one solution, though. I use it with the Andromedas and it's a particularly synergistic pairing.
     

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