Line between having an open mind vs being objective(basing on your current knowledge)

Your messages are all about certainty (or truth or facts or whatchamacallit). You are insisting in using the scientific method to avoid fooling ourselves and you are liking it to the "objective" philosophy which in your minds seems to have little use of subjective evaluation.

So lets apply the scientific method...

1) Formulate a Question: Does amp A sound better than amp B?
2) Hypothesis: Amp A will sound better than Amp B.
3) Prediction: If Amp A sounds better than Amp B, it likely has lower THD than Amp B (look at available data such as specs both of the amp and parts use, perhaps perform quick board construction inspection).
4) Testing: Listen to Amp A and Amp B to see which one sounds better (do this across multiple populations, different times, state conditions and equipment used). Measure Amp A and Amp B distortion (different distortion data, state conditions and equipment/setup used). Obviously, assumptions are made in this step through out the testing, both during hearing and measurement trials.
5) Analysis: Amp B sounds better, though Amp A indeed has lower THD. So go back to 2) and revise prediction step. Perhaps look at other distortion metric which may show other dominant issue in the chain. Or revise music samples which may have some issues being masked by the distortion itself, making Amp B sound better. Who knows? Keep trying.

So, should we remove actual listening evaluations with the amps in the chain when evaluating if one amp sounds better than the other, if one is to use the scientific method? Is the scientific method incompatible with such subjective evaluation? Have you read some of the tests performed by Harman and other organizations employing subjective test to determine targets curves? Do you feel these tests are just pointless exercises of "feelings" or "delusions" as you call them?

If you feel folks are being misleading, tell me, if one is given a set of impressions in a review and then a set of data points including frequency response, csds and distortion (THD), along perhaps with impedance curves, along with being upfront about conditions, what exactly are we crusading about here?

I fail to see the problem.

Folks here are not trying to sell you a piece of wire for $100,000 claiming it will warp time and space once you hook it up to your audio system and will make you stain your pant so hard it will dry your balls. There are equipment discussions. Along with how folks feel about them, and how they seem to perform relative to other systems. There is data around about equipment. Some of that data even using high end audio analyzers. If you are concerned about cost, read through the threads, it is a concern among most folks here.

If your car drives rough (subjective evaluation), maybe your suspension is fucked. You perform as set of tests, and if indeed it's the case, you solve the problem. Drive it again, and hopefully your ride is not crap anymore.

The scientific method is a very useful tool. And if you look closely, you might see it's application here. We don't live for it, but you don't need to defend it.

 

@sorrodje: I would argue that castle is actually getting special treatment here. Most others would have been banned by now. I understand his convictions, but really, there's no point in discussing these things. It's really an all together other subject that deserves to be discussed on a different forum. We don't have a sound science section for a reason. Audiophilia is in itself a religion, with its own axioms, dogmas, methods, traditions, customs, etc. This site is no different with its own flavor. As with AudioCircle, as with nwavguy, HF, etc.

What's castle is doing is essentially the equivalent of barging into a local Catholic parish and arguing about the facts of the Virgin Birth, the Trinity, the Resurrection with the constituents. But doing so in a really nice way. Everyone finds him annoying. Some find him downright offensive. The priest thinks he's just weird. Ultrabike is like the one guy in the church that maintains a good conversation with him.

Ultimately, what he is what is doing is trolling, but in a very nice way as to prevent being banned. I'm not fooled for a moment.

@castleofargh: kindly take this conversation to the Sound Science forum at Head-Fi. I believe @ultrabike still has access there.

 

There already is a sound science forum where castle is the moderator: http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science

 

Locking thread. This thread is mostly noise. I don't think anyone has understood the point of Castle's stream of consciousness posts. Castle, feel free to PM @ultrabike to continue this conversation on HF. I am sure no one here else cares for it. If anyone does, feel free to join them.