Lynx PCIe AES interfaces: AES16 and E22

Thanks @Garns and @Yeskey. The prices on ebay are fair. I am just being a tight wad. I don't really want to spend money on something that I don't think will improve the sound. I will wait for a cheaper one.

I would probably stick with TOSLink as my preferred connection method. In which case, I imagine that the RME 9632 would not offer an improvement over the Elfidelity AXF-8 that I am currently using. The Elfidelity card was the equal of the Xonar Essence STX II when using digital out. Therefore the TOSLink emitter is likely good.

Garns, does your card have the shiny box version of the crystal oscillator or the black chip version? I like shiny

 

I think @k4rstar has on occasions spotted them sans cable for MUCH less on ebay, so this sounds like a good strategy.

Will let you know when I next have the lid off my PC (within a couple of weeks)...

 

ya i actually thought about that right after posting but ya the lynx e22 is 700 so around 200$ for the enclosure seemed good to me but if ur getting cards at around 200 euros that definitely screwed up that price ratio also the only real reason I see getting the enclosure is like I have a high end gpu which would be sitting right next to it but people usually don't have that so shouldn't be much of an issue anyway

 

There's also the option of buying the older Lynx AES16 card, (now discontinued) on the used market. Regular PCI (not express). I paid about $50 for the card and another $50 for the breakout cable.
I think $100 is a very reasonable cost to test the waters with this solution.
I'm in the first weeks of listening so expectation bias might still be clouding my judgement but it sounds good compared to USB. Very very good.

In fact, if I add in the fact that all gizmos used to clean up USB and trying desperately to hear improvements in every little tweak has turned out to be be a miserable ride all along, not to say frickin' expensive, then this is probably the best $100 I've spent on this hobby.
But I'll be back with more impressions in a couple of months.

I use AES16 over WASAPI with ROON to Yggdrasil -> Mjolnir2 -> HD800

 

Sorry i wasn't clear with card i meant a thunderbolt card which are about 70€ and the cases seem to go for about 300€. I already bought the Lynx for 375€ but it's the Aes-50 model which is more expensive and it was only 2 years old.

My gpu is not high end but the fact that it's passive has me concerned a bit, it's an RX 460 btw. So for now i have resorted to extra cooling until i have the cable sorted.

 

oh ok gotya btw isn't it being passive a good thing in regards to noise levels? maybe test it out on load and see the temperatures before adding more cooling and noise levels imo

 

Yeah i did check the temperature and it is a bit higher on the gpu but not alarmingly so, the fact that the lynx is right below it has me more concerned about it's temp. There is less then 1cm of room between the heatsink and the lynx. And this is also a htpc i use with madvr etc, so both are under load often, it's not used for gaming but practically there is no difference if you push the settings on madvr.

 

For those of you who have RME cards (and perhaps Lynx as well) I would urge you to try the ASIO drivers versus a WASAPI connection if you haven't already. To my ears there is an immediate and noticeable difference, both in tonality and presentation. I've tested this and the changes are consistent between MusicBee, foobar and JRiver. To ensure I wasn't crazy I reported this to @Garns and he had the same findings with his card.

What the device should show up as:


RME's ASIO drivers also support multi-client mixing, meaning other applications can access the device even during bit-perfect playback, useful if you want to do background listening.

 

That's very interesting. I find the opposite to be true with the Lynx AES16 card. I need more time to compare but for me WASAPI sounds more intimate, close, detailed and natural. A different manufacturer but still.
More to come in a couple of months.

EDIT January 2nd: I definitely need more time to form a solid opinion of this one. 2 days of intense listening and comparing and I'm starting to wonder whether the WASAPI driver is a bit too hot. 'Intimate, close, detailed' can also be words that describes a soundstage that is somewhat too pushy.
I do understand that we're talking about different manufacturers here but further investigations might help others who take this route vs USB moving forward.
But just to be 100% clear. The sound quality coming out of these cards is fantastic. Expectation bias might still be the root cause, but I'm starting to doubt it.... The driver choice, at least for me, is a minor thing - but interesting.

EDIT January 3rd: Here's my JRiver setup including the Lynx ASIO Control Panel. Works well without any stuttering/dropouts with 44.1 sample rate. Above that I have to increase the buffer size to avoid clicks/pops. No surprise of course, but might be useful to other new Lynx users. For 192kHz a buffer size of 128 seems to work OK, but I don't hear much of a difference going to 256.

 

Just a heads-up to win10 users in regard to this advice. DPC is incompatible with win10 and will report latency around 1000µs regardless of any tweaking.
Using LatencyMon in win10 provided me with more reasonable latency feedback. If it matters? Don't know, but if you're having dropouts despite having "high" buffer size settings, it might help to figure out why.
Let the software run for at least 4 minutes while playing music to let potential artifacts show up. Then stop and check the stats.

Some tuning tips can be found here: https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209571729

 

Thank you for this. I tried on my Windows 10 machine recently and was stumped.

 

I recently spent some time comparing my Lynx E22 to the microRendu ("MR" for future reference), as well as listening to how both sounded when reclocked via the Mutec MC-3+. All devices were run in to a Schiit Yggdrasil, feeding a Glenn OTL -> Modded HD650, and a Purity Harmony tube buffer -> Pass Aleph 30 -> Kairos DIY speakers (SB Acoustics Satori drivers). The MR was powered by the Uptone Audio LPS-1 "ultracap" PSU. The MR only outputs USB, and the E22 outputted AES via the breakout cable.

The MR has an easily distinguishable presentation from the E22, I don't think I would find it difficult to determine which device was being used in a blind comparison. The most immediately notable difference is that the MR is less dynamic, more laid back. The effect is similar to dropping down a gain level on a gain adjustable amp. As a result, the microRendu has less bass slam and the treble delivery is more delicate. There is a sense of being further back from the stage with the MR, where as the E22 is more forward. Resolution was very close between the two, though the lack of attack on the MR made it perhaps a bit easier to pick out nuances at times, and the more distant presentation felt a tiny bit less congested. The flip side is that the E22 sounds more realistic to me, drum hits in particular have a sense of body and impact that is lacking in the MR.

Introducing the Mutec MC-3+ as a reclocker was very interesting. Running the Mutec straight as a USB reclocker sounded inferior to both IMO, thus I won't delve further in to that. Via the Mutec, both the E22 and the MR largely retained their aforementioned presentations, with the E22 (AES in/AES out) being more dynamic/forward and the MR (USB in/AES out) being more laid back and delicate.

Reclocked by the Mutec, both became more focused, but the E22 really came to life. The slight relative congestion of the E22 as noted earlier becomes more layered and nuanced with improved depth, which was especially distinguishable on my speaker setup. Inner detail, plankton, ect, is much more apparent and there is a greater sense of cohesion. Imaging specificity also improved. The only real downside, other than being audiofool expensive, is that the combination of dynamics and focus is less forgiving. Crappy recordings aren't glossed over and production issues are easy to hear.


At the end of the day, I personally found the E22/Mutec MC-3+ combo to be really damn engaging. The combination of spatial precision and resolution was hard to step away from. However, Mutec nonsense aside, I still prefer the E22 over the MR. As someone who prefers a lively presentation, the E22 simply sounded ballsier and closer to reality to me. The MR feels comparatively a bit limp and is more expensive to boot, once you factor in a decent PSU.

As always, my $0.02, YMMV, blah blah.

 

Quoting a thread from the Lynx forum that me and @Xecuter was involved in. Seems to have been resolved. This might help other users.

The proper order for installing / upgrading Lynx cards, new or used:
1. Install card.
2. Firmware update (if needed). http://www.lynxstudio.com/support_downloads.asp
There's prerequisites among the firmware versions so make sure you pick the right one.
3. Install latest driver.

 

Yeh thanks for this. Even though I recently did this, I still had to wipe the driver and reinstall.
Honestly this card has fixed so many issues with my PC. If you use a PC for a source and have ever thought there was jitter/digital harshness or any other issue get a pro-audio card.
If you think this is just upgraditis/nervosa. I unplugged a 2k tube pre-amp because I don't feel I need 8 tubes to correct things anymore..

 

There's definitely something good going on here; but I wouldn't immediately recommend people to go out buying pro-cards.
I fell for every marketing trick in the book (embarrassing on its own considering working with strategic marketing, but in another business ) in regards to USB and went through all the threads, bought the stuff, raved about it etc; until giving up admitting that I couldn't solve the USB issues by purchasing another gizmo/cable/defuckiFRIER. Yggdrasil was the way out for me and using USB straight from PC was very impressive.
Hence me being a bit hesitant (scared?) on recommending taking another turn into a, for me, new way of transporting a digital signal.

These cards are generally not cheap if bought new (RME, Lynx) and I was lucky enough to buy a cheap, used PCI card. I've spent a few days tweaking my PC to lower latency (i.e. finding shit that hogs processing power), trying to find a buffer size that works with all sample rates. Now I need time. Lots of time. For just listening.
Then I'll come back with a firm recommendation from my end, should anyone care.

(@Xecuter but between you and me....it sounds f'ing amazing )

 

So as promised some pics of the setup with the riser cable. Nothing special though since the one with the molex was too deep. I will have to think of some other way to mount the lynx if i decide to go that way.

 

AES16 pci vs. pci-e, any difference aside from price?

 

I wouldn't go for pci, every modern mobo which still has pci is using a bridge chip which might be asking for trouble. Last native pci chipset is Q67 for sandy bridge.

Sound quality wise i doubt there is a difference unless you're getting skips and pops due to a shitty pci bus.

 

I've used a variety of pci soundcards on my current pc without issues. Anyone running a PCI configuration?