Massdrop x Eddie Current ZDT Jr. (Official Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Hands, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I’m gonna guess that it might synergize well with beyerdynamic, as well. I know folks here don’t like beyer that much, but often the same amps good with the HD800 are good with the T1 (or DT700/800/900/T90).
     
  2. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    Done. I'll have them both sent you at some point.
     
  3. Ryu

    Ryu Friend

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    God damn it. I don't want to buy more headphone gear! Listened to this guy with the provided upgraded tubes from the loaner vs the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with upgraded potentimeter and rolled tubes (TungSol 5998 and RCA Cleartop 12AU7) and my Bifrost Multibit. The speed and resolution on this thing blew it out of the f'ing water man. To keep this short and to the point since I hate reading walls of text, The ZDT Jr is simply more resolving than the Crack. You trade off the warmfag bloated type bass for a slightly thinner bass but maintaining the texture and attack. The uppers don't feel bogged down or weak with the ZDT Jr. The uppers are much more forward and clear compared to the Crack. I feel that the mids are about the same between the two. If you have the chance to buy this and want an incredible mid to upper tier amp, don't even hesitate. Just whip out that credit card and buy it if you have the chance.
     
  4. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    So balance is brought back to the Force with another glowing review. Not sure if it's the prose or the Tungsol tubes :p

    @Ryu, how was your experience re:sub-bass and upper treble? I'm not really a basshead (sorry) and too much treble in the 11kHz+ region irritate me, so reports so far about aforementioned lack of extension haven't really bothered me, but I'm curious how poorly (?) they perform in this regard.
     
  5. Ryu

    Ryu Friend

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    I wouldn't say the upper treble is very sharp or overwhelming. I too have trouble with harsh treble and it didn't feel bad to me at all. Using the test track Octopus Has No Friends by Mastodon, I find that the cymbals aren't overly harsh but still have decent resolution, attack and decay.

    The Subbass is okay. Not exactly the best bass I've heard and I definitely prefer the Crack's subbass over the ZDT Jr. Using
    Lose Yourself to Dance as a test track, I find that the intro bass extends much deeper and thicker on the Crack than the ZDT. I dropped youtube links in the spoiler below for the test tracks.


     
  6. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Familiar with the Daft Punk song (RAM is one of my standby test albums because I love it so damn much), but Mastodon is a band I've heard of yet have not had the chance to listen to yet. Thanks for the links!

    And if anything, the contention over whether these are any good or not makes me want to get ears on them asap, but my friend here isn't getting his amp until much later this year and I'm still iffy on whether I should get this or save up for my (current) endgame.

    It's kinda weird since I think I have a pulse on @Luckbad et al's sonic preferences now and the meh response got raised eyebrows out of me. Either way, definitely looking forward to @Hands getting both units currently circulating so we can find out if there's anything amiss with the one.

    Thanks, Ryu!

     
  7. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I was surprised at the meh response myself. I wanted it to be a baby Super 7 so I could buy it. :p
     
  8. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Holy f'ing listicles @Luckbad have I died and gone to some special version of hell where endless bullet point laundry lists of drivel haunt me for all eternity?
     
  9. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    Seriously, have to agree. @Luckbad that was almost unreadable. Bullet points are meant for brevity, not the opposite.
     
  10. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Just to clarify, not trying to be a dick, I just abuse (frequently bad) humor to say things (to my wife's dismay). just think that impressions are more useful after more listening and digesting and then using God's gifts to man (introspection, foresight and thought) to form something coherent. If only for reduced need to back pedal and conflicting impressions hahaha.. but you know we all have free choice or the illusion thereof so carry on fighting the good fight folks.
     
  11. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Short, pithy and considered opinions are more useful than reams of unstructured blather, though. It's egotistical to expect people to pick the bits of sweetcorn out by hand.

    I've started skipping those, as there's rarely enough coherent information in there to merit the effort :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  12. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    IMG_1991.jpg
    ZDT Jr Review

    Since I had limited time, I decided to only listen to the ZDT Jr with the GE JAN 5654 driver tubes in lieu of stock tubes. I listened with HD800 SDR and cork mod as well as KISS-mod HD650 only through the High Z-output. Chain was CDP->Coax->Gungnir Multibit->balanced Freya passive-> SE out to ZDT Jr (amp and dac plugged into Emotiva CMX-2).

    I increasingly realize how perceptive and how many sets of good ears we have here, which is why I will try to give credit where it is due. If I misrepresented anyone or anything, please forgive me and PM and I will edit as needed. I read through all of the praise and complaints in the thread here and all points had validity. I need to preface this review by saying that I was biased since I read Songmic's statement that he preferred the ZDT Jr to Torpedo 3. In the back of my mind, I was comparing these amps always thinking, could the ZDT Jr supplant the T3 in my setup? The current answer for me is "No". However, I really like this amp, specifically with HD800- which seems to mirror the more positive reviews.

    As, I believe, ButtUglyJeff pointed out there is some roughness in the upper mids that I can hear in Mason Jennings' voice on one of my favorite albums "Use Your Voice". This also may be due to distortion from the microphones used. As Ringingears pointed out, he was able to clearly hear the different microphones used in Beatles recordings; I also heard this throughout the different tracks in "Use Your Voice". As everyone says, the magic of this amp is in the portrayal of the mids. The way this amp brings out layers of detail in the midrange is something I haven't quite experienced before. My guess this is a big component the EC House Sound. The T3 does layering and details well, but the midrange, this is where the ZDT Jr is easily better for me. I am pretty sure this is what Songmic was thinking that the ZDT Jr is better than T3. The layers of detail bring the whole recording venue to life with reverb details everywhere, it is amazing. As Luckbad said and drew, with HD650, there is a noticeable 3-blob soundstage, but I think it is an interesting way the amp resolves the instruments in space. As I listened more, I began to appreciate the 3-blob soundstage might be better visualized as each microphone recording a sphere and then imagine each sphere merging like Venn diagrams. With the HD800, of course, the spheres are more like oblate spheroids and more overlapping. The T3 in contrast doesn't present sound this way, it is a more unified wall of sound that layers emerge from. For me, the HD650 on T3 has a more cohesive presentation with increased lower-mid and bass information that seems to obscure some of the details that ZDT Jr lays out in those wonderful mids.

    I agree with Hands and others, the ZDT does a pretty decent job with bass. Especially on the HD800, bass is not an issue for me at all. I read others complained about loose, undefined bass with HD650, but at least with KISS modded HD650, I didn't experience this at all. The T3 does a better job at resolving bass guitar and upright bass on the HD650, as I'm sure more expensive amps do. I listen to some pretty damn funky jazz and for me the rhythm section is where it's at. I put on the Beastie Boys "The In Sound From Way Out" and the ZDT Jr did a great job with both HD650 and HD800 of getting my head bobbing.

    I am part of the drop for this amp, and I am glad I listened to the hype (thanks zerodeefex). I think this is great amp especially for the HD800. I just shipped the amp off and it passes the Luckbad test, meaning, I am going to miss listening to it. As JoshMorr noted as well, this amp synergizes much better with HD800 than HD650. I own LCD-2C, but didn't bother to plug it in. I think the ZDT Jr should be mainly viewed as an amp for HD800. As Marv mentioned in another post, for budget minded folks (like me) to get ZDT Jr for HD800 and Magni 3 for LCD-2C, if you happen to like both of these headphones. That seems like brilliant advice. Although, I already own T3 and it does a great job for HD800/650 and LCD-2C. For a minute, I thought about selling T3 and taking the proceeds and buying records or something. For now, I am going to eagerly await the arrival of the ZDT Jr and go back to enjoying T3 (until a ZDS pops up for sale ;)).
     
  13. AllanMarcus

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    MassDrop Eddie Current ZDT Jr. Impressions

    It’s a small amp. Very desktop friendly.
    Power connector is a little loose; not in the case, but when connecting a cable, the cable feels a little loose in the sockets. Might be an issue if the cable gets tugged at occasionally. Might also just be the this unit.

    Only compared it to an Eddie Current Black Widow 2. Used a Gungnir Multibit USB Gen 2 to feed both.
    All BlueJean RCA cables

    Sennheiser HD600 with DIY pure silver cable, using the High jack on the Jr.
    There is definitely a family resemblance between these amps.
    The Jr. is a tad smoother to me. The BW2 delivers a little more detail.

    switched to a HD650 cable, but still using the HD600.
    sound is a bit fuller/warmer. I built the silver cable for the HD650, but thought I would try it here.
    Listened to a classical piece, flute solo, wow. These amps sound quite different. All the fullness of the flute disappears with the Jr. I’ve never heard such a stark timbre difference between amps. (Robert Schumann/Romance, Op. 94, No.1, Stereophile Test CD 1).
    A cello solo sound pretty similar between the two amps. So it might be an oddity at the frequency a flute plays.
    You can also hear it, to a lesser extent, with the sax in Take Five.

    Well, with the Utopia, the timbre variation was less noticeable.
    Also, much less noticeable with the beyerdynamic DT770/250.
    In fact the amp pairs well with the DT770, and the two’s price range are a little more compatible. Probably would work well with a T1 as well.
    Dianna Krall sounds very smooth with the DT770/250. There’s a little congestion with the piano solos, but that is probably the DT770/250. The beyer shoutiness is mostly, if not completely tamed with the Jr. The congestion clears up with the BW2, but a little shout returns. Not a lot, but probably too much for those treble sensitive.

    Then I tried the Fostex TH900. To the point: treble a bit tamed. Bass too bloomy.

    Another good synergy: Ether C 1.1, with a warm copper cable. The DUM cable with one black pad, might be as good, but I don’t have a DUM cable. I used the Low jack for the Ether C.

    The BW2 has more slam down low. Can be heard with recent Steely Dan albums.

    Overall, the amp is pretty darned good for $400. Is the BW2 better? Yes, but the Jr. certainly shows the family resemblance. If I were not a headphone-acholic and wasn’t A/B listening to the these amps, I would not have really been able to pick out certain faults. As has been said, headphone synergy here is pretty important. The Jr is less fussy than the Crack, but still fussy. I was surprised by beyerdynamic. I don’t have any Grado’s anymore, but I would bet they would work well with the Jr. in the Low jack. I also don’t have an HD800, but I can see how this amp would work for that.

    Final headphone listen: MassDrop HD6xx, unmodified, but with a standard HD650 cable. The odd timbre issue with the flute is much smaller with the HD6xx than it was with the HD600. To me, the BW2 and the Jr. sounded very similar with the HD6xx. The sax in Take Five, however, does have a different timbre between the amps. As before, the BW2 produces a more fuller sound. The Jr. seems to missing something for the Sax. I also noticed the ever so slightly loose bass on the Jr. vs the BW2, but only really is an issue if A/B listening. The bass is very enjoyable on the Jr, even with the HD6xx.

    Useable volume for me with the HD6xx is up to 10:00. After that, it’s too loud.

    Listening to Tears in Heaven (unplugged) between the two amps, the vocals on the Jr seems bit laid back, or conversely, more forward on the BW2.

    Also, brain burn-in compensates rather quickly. If I just listen to the Jr (or mostly any decent amp) for 3-5 songs, my brain compensates for most frequency response variations.

    Conclusion

    To me, the Jr works well with the HD6xx, the Ether C, the beyerdynamic DT770/250, and the Utopia.
    Didn’t work as well with the HD600 and the Fostex TH900

    Given the limited headphone synergy, I imagine the Jr. will become a bit of a unicorn amp. I predict only one run and a small, loyal following. It’s very retro looking, with a modern aesthetic, so it has a very nice desktop appeal. It might need a knob upgrade :)

    The amp goes off to Ray on Tuesday.
     
  14. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    @Luckbad I'm wondering if you've tried Aeons (closed) and your opinion? I'm asking because I find them too neutral and boring but most seem to love them. Based on your Eddy Jr. thoughts, we may have similar taste. I'd want to be sure I would enjoy pairing the Eddie Jr. with my HD-6XX and LCD2C.
     
  15. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    A little update. I finished a basic, Crack. Stock tubes, but updated internal wiring and pot. I listed to the same flute piece with the HD600 on the Crack and the BW2. No odd timbre variation. I'm not saying the Crack is better then the Jr. I'm saying in this one case, the Crack sounds more like the BW2 than the Jr.

    Only way to compare the Crack to the Jr will be to have both side by side.
     
  16. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

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    Brief loaner impressions:

    I went into this loaner with low expectations. I came away very impressed. My setup was my Toshiba SD9200 CDP -> ZDT Jr. & ZDS -> Auteur/HD650. Unfortunately my Gungnir Multibit was sold a couple days before I got the loaner (tbh I completely forgot I was coming up soon) and my new DAC I purchased is backordered atm. However my CDP is proving to be pretty decent. I have scoured the internet and the only info I can find about the internal DAC is on a really old stereophile review that says it is made by Analog Devices (it received an A rating back in 2001).

    I'll start with the shortcomings. I'm not a huge fan of the bass response. It is a little slower, a little muddled compared to what I prefer. From memory I think I would of preferred the Valhalla 2 with some nice (but cheap) tubes. This was the only major fault and may honestly be exaggerated by my 17 year old DAC. Of course it suffers against my ZDS in staging, air, dynamics, etc. I can't really complain for $400 though when I'm comparing it to a $2.5k amp.

    Only going to touch on the sound a little bit as I know my CDP, despite doing a respectable job, is likely holding the amp back (I know it's holding my ZDS back quite a bit).

    Bass: A bit one note, not the fastest or clearest. Acceptable at this price range though. I would pair it with a DAC that has really good bass control. The detail is there, just not as noticeable as the rest. Really wish I had a Gungnir Multibit on hand to test this more.

    Mids: Really good resolution and micro dynamics. Voices come through with good clarity and are not too far back or too close. Exceeds my expectations for a $400 amp.

    Treble: I love this type of tube design. Treble is clear and precise without any edge or harshness. Staging is respectable, one of the areas I think the Valhalla 2 beats it though by a small margin.

    The Valhalla 2 is one of my favorite amps under $500, probably even under $1k. The ZDT Jr. is right there with it, better in most ways and only worse in a couple. If I had to sell my ZDS and downgrade, I would be happy with the ZDT Jr. as my main amp.

    There is some familiarity between the ZDT Jr. and my ZDS. I think it is more that the amps both just do so much right and less because of a familiar house sound. I know Eddie Current and Laconic has partnered in the past, so this isn't surprising that their priorities in sound reproduction is similar.

    I was not expecting the amp to be so tiny.

    ZDTjr.jpg
     
  17. Ray

    Ray Friend

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    Not gonna go into a long drawn out impression. I could easily live with this as my daily driver. Sure it doesn’t have the staging or openness of the big boy amps I’ve owned but the engagement factor w/ this little gem is high. I may grab one if they drop again.
     
  18. e.schell

    e.schell Friend

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    I've had the loaner in my system since last night and so far i can safely say... wish i would have joined the drop. i went back and forth at the time and now...regret...haha i'll probably be waiting for some sucker at HF to listen to it for 2 days after receiving it and decides to sell it to snatch one up! Really enjoying it with my HD6xxK
     
  19. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    I'm in the drop, but right now don't have a suitable pair of cans for this amp, just have a couple of planers.
    Thinking about joining the HD6xx drop?
    Really want a pair of HD800's, but I don't know if I can stretch my budget that far.

    Any opinions, or other recommendations welcome.

    Randy
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Generally, don't use planars with the ZDT Jr. The HD6XX or HD800 should both pair well. Which is better suited to your tastes (ignoring budget), I can't say. In general, stick with dynamic headphones with this, especially if they're higher impedance.

    Note that many other tube + output transformer coupled amps work really well with planars. The ZDT Jr. just isn't one.
     

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