Massdrop x Eddie Current ZDT Jr. (Official Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Hands, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Well, you should be modding your HD650 to get the most out of it in general, regardless of the rest of your setup.

    I don't find the ZDT Jr. to be a dark sounding amp. It won't be as bright as the Jot, but I would put it sort of around the Vali 2 in overall tonal balance (mostly neutral, slight hint of warmth).

    I would argue this is a step up. Again, it's kind of like the little brother to my Super 7, which blows the Crack out of the water. It punches way above its price.

    However, you might prefer the presentation of the Crack and find it better because of that. I can't make that call.

    Yes, I felt the bass on the ZDT Jr. was actually pretty decent. Not the most nuanced and defined, and not the hardest hitting relative to a truly better amp, but you can't expect everything at this price. I just can't recall if the NBM sounded worse in this area or not, but know how I feel about the ZDT Jr currently.

    It's a rather cool running amp. The tubes don't get as hot as I've seen on other amps, and the case itself is just barely warm.

    Different flavors. The ZDT Jr. sounds a little sweeter, less solid-state-like, better staging and air, more nuances, etc. Just sounds more organic and normal. It's hard to explain if you haven't heard a good tube + OPT coupled amp. I would rank it a good tier above the CTH overall, even though the CTH is also really damn good for the price.

    I haven't heard the SEX, any version, so I can't really help. Sorry. :(
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    So evidently @CEE TEE did get in a few prototypes to test and tweak. I have confirmed that the ZDT Jr. actually is tuned differently from the two NBM units that I had heard a while back (note that even these two units sounded slightly differently). I did not like the two older NBM units with a stock HD650 or stock HD650M, but this current ZDT Jr. seems tuned to in a way that is similar to the ZDS. A stock HD6XX sounded good, so did a HD650M, HD600, and modded HD800. I actually would not recommend a stock HD800.

    To the question of the HD650, even if this did not work out, then get the HD600. I did find rolling the driver tube to make difference. The stock russian tubes tend toward sounding brighter and more aggressive. The JAN GR5654Ws (again in the driver - the two small tubes in the front) sounded lusher, more laid back, a bit more resolving.

    This is a tricky thing though because OTL, as implemented in the headphone world, usually has super high output impedance. OTL is typically cathode follower too. This has a certain sound: more romantic, luxurious, slower (which is why the Crack has the Speedball upgrade). I am flat out shocked at how well ZDT Jr. amp came out that would I confidently say that that it sounds better than the Crack. Less veiled, more resolving. The Crack might have more bass slam because of its super high output impedance, but the Crack bass is kind of thuddy. ZDT Jr. bass isn't the most nuanced or articulate, but it does beat the Crack in these qualities. Bottom line is that these amps are going to sound different and one shouldn't expect the ZDT Jr. to be an "improved" Crack. Transformer coupled and OTL (particularly high Z OTL) have very different sounds.

    Assuming the right headphone, meaning HD600, HD600, HD800 (modded), Utopia, ZDT Jr. all the way. Audeze LCD2 or LCD3, probably MCTH.

    Hard to say because builds may be different. I was never impressed with the SEX with the Sennheiser headphones and considered Crack better.
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Thanks, @Marvey. So is it confirmed the 5654W is safe to run in the driver stage? Only other question I have from there is if the ECC89/6FC7 are safe in the power stage. Not sure if they are all truly equivalent or more just very similar.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I should have ECC89 in soon. Craig might already have them. Yeah, get rid of those Russian tubes. Some are gems, but most of them suck, i.e. dry aggressive and dull.
     
  5. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Maybe explains @Elnrik impressions being way worse vs others, impossible to be really sure I guess.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Ummm. No.

    Need more info on that. HP-3 has very low output impedance with an impedance bump at resonance frequency in the bass and a slight rise in the treble. Also, need to be sure the low-Z output jack was used. Another consideration, was it actually the ZDT Jr. or a NBM? The amps are slightly different. Finally, were there any other impressions from the NBM with a more normal sounding headphone like the HD600 or HD650? I like HP-3, but I wouldn't use that headphone or any headphone unfamiliar to me to assess gear. And finally, what recordings, and how familiar with those recordings. Seriously, I've seen dudes at meets assess different systems using totally different recordings. All of this is Audio 101.
     
  7. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I would like to figure it out too. I'm not even sure how the Klipsch guys got one to demo.
     
  8. I_want_all_the_tacos

    I_want_all_the_tacos Friend

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    My current stable is HD6XX (stock), HD800 (SDR), Auteur, and Atticus with a Theta DSPro basic II -> Valhalla 2 and Magni 3. I know some people are saying this ZDT Jr. is overall better than Valhalla 2. With my headphones in particular would the ZDT Jr. be a worthy upgrade to replace Valhalla 2, or are there still things the Valhalla 2 brings to the table that ZDT Jr. lacks and rather they could complement each other well?
     
  9. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Global Use: Yes, the 220 volt version will work fine with 240 volts. But it would have difficulty below 210-205 volts.

    Changes: Changed the power circuit in ZDT Jr. Not sure of the exact translation but... "The anode power is cleaner and more quickly works in dynamic mode."


    Klipsch:
    When I met Andrew and Vlad at RMAF, I happened to be carrying around a ZDT Jr. in a bag.

    I left them one to try and they tried it immediately, said they liked it. So, I thought it would be fun to let them have one to enjoy and show.

    Gotta contact them again and let them know it is okay to show it publicly now. If you saw it, that was before I asked them to hide it at RMAF. ;)

    (Lemme know if you hear it and don't think it is a good pairing, I'll get them an MCTH instead. They were really cool and I liked their approach to joining the community.)
     
  10. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Just my opinion but with all the headphones that you have, don't bother with this amp if you have the Valhalla 2 already. Continue to save up and get a ZDS (or equiv.) and be done with it.
     
  11. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Also, I think the Valhalla2 can be improved with a modest tube roll (EH6GC7 are only $25 ea. from Tube Store/ Tube Depot) to take care of the dry treble, at which point it's a pretty awesome sound. IMHO
     
  12. I_want_all_the_tacos

    I_want_all_the_tacos Friend

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    I'm actually currently running 6CG7 in my Valhalla 2 (based on all my previous lurking around here) and love it. Thanks for the advice guys, you are probably right that the ZDT Jr. won't be a huge upgrade and I should probably just make the final jump to TOTL tube amps instead since my headphone lineup is pretty set.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    If you were starting out new, and didn't mind waiting months, ZDT Jr. for sure. The ZDTJ tends more tubey. The Valhalla 2 more solid-state. Don't move unless you find the Valhalla 2 too dry sounding. Then again the ZDTJ might be too wet / bloomy.
     
  14. Mdkaler

    Mdkaler Friend

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    As Friday morning is approaching, and all this talk and want and desire and lust is killing me. Someone please tell me:

    Is this ZDT Jr in the same league as BW2?

    Some say it is better than the T3, others say it is not head and shoulders taller than the Jot.
    With the Sagaheim and HD6xx I am content for the first time. Headstage is very nice, wide enough and not fuzzy/diffuse, as in very cohesive layering. One shortcoming might be plankton in the mids, but the Saga is recovering some masked microdetails.

    Kind of don't want to side grade anymore, go big or stay home.
     
  15. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    If it makes you feel any better there are currently over 1700 people interested in the 300 or so units. So even wanting it might not get you it...
     
  16. Marlowe

    Marlowe New

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    I think I'm going to follow this advice and stick with the Vahalla 2. I'm very tempted by the ZDT Jr. and can just barely afford it, but since I'd really be pinching pennies for the next month (I'm retired on a fixed income), it's probably a dumb thing to do. And since I live in NJ where MD has operations, it costs me 7% more (NJ sales tax) than most US purchasers. I'm currently using 2C51s in the Valhalla 2 ($35 for the pair, plus $17.50 for two adapters) and am pretty happy with it. But something new and shiny is always hard to resist.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You may not like the ZDT Jr. if you are used to Sagaheim's grip on the HD600 driver. ZDT is a tubier wetter bloomier presentation. A tick more bloomy than typical EC tube gear, but still not too much so. Not anywhere near the bloominess of the Feliks Elise with the Mullard power tubes.

    Tube designs do have drawbacks. The design of the ZDT uses no feedback (there is local feedback on one half of the power triode). A small output transformer is used (with some very ingenious tricks) instead of a monster expensive transformer, so likely there may be bit more bass distortion at higher levels. In any event, no feedback tube designs are doing to sound a certain way. The bad is that SE tube bass will never be as good as decent solid state. The good is the expansive and lively presentation (mids on up) that is seldom heard with solid-state gear. There is something definitely special sounding about all tube designs no with solid-state shit in the signal path. Personally, I am willing to sacrifice bass quality and focus for all-tube goodness provided the presentation isn't too wet or the distortion too high. This is where the ZDT Jr. pulls it off. And transformer coupled designs are where it's at for me. OTL is nice, but gets tedious in the long term, always that veil with the big cap at the end. So as to all the questions which is better (T3, BW, Valhalla 2, etc.), I can only answer that the ZDT Jr. is better in an overall sense for me. But not every aspect of the ZDT Jr is better when compared to the other amps, so largely it's going to be a matter of personal preferences, or different. If you want better bass quality, better to go solid-state or hybrid. If you dislike a little bit of tube bloom, go solid state.

    That being said, I am trying to find out WTH Ahmed did exactlly to the ZDT Jr., what he changed from the prior NBMs. Craig's going to talk to him to find out. I don't remember the NBMs being this resolving or keeping me this interested. The ZDT Jr. does keep scaling with better sources (Modi Multibit to Gungnir Multibit was obvious, something that cannot be said with most headphone amps, even those costing $1500 or more). BTW I am kind of late to the party. I have so much crap at home that I finally opened this up two nights ago.

    IMG_20171116_090006.jpg

    P.S.

    Yes, good things happen to people who wait. I expect there will be more in the next year. At this rate, the $800-$2500 headphone amp market is doomed to mediocrity if the good designers keep doing real engineering and deliberate listening to get better sound at lower and lower BOMs. And what's going to happen is that people are gonna be pissed off and say that are biased or even more biased; but I don't give a shit. I am biased toward good sound for cheap.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  18. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Alright f*ck it, I'm getting one just to see what a wetter, bloomier presentation sounds like.
     
  19. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I thought this was a push-pull design with an ungapped transformer? That would mean you can get away with a smaller transformer without major bass rolloff?
     
  20. Mdkaler

    Mdkaler Friend

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    Thanks Marv. Think I know what you mean by how the Jot grabs the 6x0 drivers, a hybrid is probably what I would like. Guess I will listen to the wallet and skip this one then. Holiday season and gf bday, yeah.

    I knew it hasn't been 6-9 months!
     

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