Metrum Acoustics Pavane DAC listening impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by jexby, May 15, 2016.

  1. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    What sort of source do you use for your DAC? I can't speak for anything except for how the SPDIF or AES input will sound on newer Metrums. If you're using USB, maybe the USB input sounds bad? I'd also make sure you're not doing any sort of post-processing prior to the DAC, including equalization or any sort of software upsampling, to ensure it's not the source side misbehaving with the Pavane.

    I think the Pavane and Gungnir Multibit have the same voltage output (?), but if not, I'd look into that. Output impedance seems slightly different per specs on each. I suppose there's a case where slight variances there could affect your amp in a negative way.

    Given the non-oversampling design, I wouldn't entirely rule out that music itself is causing some sort of aliased distortion back into the audible spectrum. Not all amps and speakers will "react" to this in the same way, or so I'm told. It seems people talk of this in theory, yet I actually can't recall someone mentioning how non-oversampling caused such issues with their setups. So far, none of the headphone amps or headphones I've tried seemed to exhibit this in music, but maybe some amps or speakers are different.
     
  2. MyPetSasquatch

    MyPetSasquatch Friend

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    I've been using the USB input on the Pavane and did on the Gungnir Multibit as well. I'll check if I have an extra optical cable lying around to see if that helps things as I know that USB inputs are not very well regarded on SBAF. I've been monitoring Roon pretty closely and there's definitely no post-processing before the DAC. The path shows a clear bitperfect output to the Pavane via WASAPI, but I'll revert back to Foobar to see if that makes a difference as well. I did some very informal frequency response graphs (smartphone app) and there's clearly a peak somewhere in there that's bothering me. I'm wondering if it's even in the treble or elsewhere. I truly appreciate all your help and ideas on things to look at.

    On the other hand, the DAC is fantastic and I love my amp as well. It's saying something that I'd rather build my system around either of those two components than my speakers. The sound and imaging with the Pavane is incredibly lifelike to the point that listening to some live jazz recordings last night (Herbie Hancock I think) I kept looking around thinking that someone was outside my house talking loudly. That never happened with the Gungnir Multibit!
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Hmm, well, the USB is severely holding Gungnir Multibit back both in staging, imaging, and it makes it sound more warm and bloated than it should. Maybe Pavane has a better USB implementation, so you're hearing it more true like it is. Just guessing.
     
  4. alucart

    alucart Facebook Friend

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    Non blinded comparison notwithstanding, I have found a noticeable difference USB and AES inputs with my Pavane, where AES (initially using a Yellowtec PUC2 USB to AES and then a Lynx AES16e card).

    The AES is:

    - more dynamic (macro and micro),
    - better resolution,
    - slightly wider and deeper soundstage, but...

    I admit that I did not notice a significant tonality change with the USB, which sounded flatter and duller, but I don't think it sounded brighter.
     
  5. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    So just when you thought you had it good enough Metrum now has a level 2 and 3 PAVANE. The Adagio is like the level 3 but with a built in pre-amp.

    ughghgh...The funds to do the upgrade is not the problem but the wait maybe.
     
  6. FredM

    FredM New

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    some additional info regarding the level 2 en level 3 update:

    "Another advantage for our DAC Two module is that it contains paired converters. Using the same number of modules as before, we now double the effective number of ladders. The current Pavane runs four modules per side, hence four ladders. The Adagio gets eight per channel even though you only see four. This doubling has a positive effect on noise, distortion and linearity. That's why we started an update program to get the Pavane to the same performance level. The current Pavane is now marked Level 1. Two more levels can be chosen, from Level 2 [+€826 ex VAT for the 192kHz broadcast module] to Level 3 [+€1'240 ex VAT for the 384kHz high-end version]. A final advantage of the DAC TWO module is that it frees up the slot for the external FPGA on the digital input board for future options. We already sent our DAC TWO module to MQA and have been certified. We are now busy creating the MQA module as an option across our entire range from Musette to Adagio (as long as the DAC TWO module is used)."

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum3/1.html
     
  7. MyPetSasquatch

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    I'm very confident my issues with fatigue are just my speakers and room. It's becoming clear that the room is too small for a 5-way floorstander with a dedicated midrange and tweeter right at listening height. There's just not enough room between the listening position and the speaker, so that I'm getting blasted by the upper mids and treble with the woofers too low in the tower to deliver the upper bass/lower midrange punch to balance out the upper mids and treble. Bass is not an issue since it's less sensitive to direction. I'm thinking I need to get a set of monitor or bookshelf speakers so that directivity is improved to my listening position. The upper mids and treble seem to be much more forward, which is causing my fatigue. The Pavane being slightly more forward than the Gungnir Multibit probably is highlighting this issue.

    Quick rundown of impressions of the Gungnir Multibit vs. Pavane:

    - Gungnir Multibit feels just slightly U-shaped in comparison to the Pavane. The Pavane has more forward mids. In terms of presentation, the Pavane feels like first row, while the Gungnir Multibit feels like 5th. What's interesting is that although the Gungnir Multibit is a bit further back, the Pavane has better depth between instruments whereas the Schiit felt like the instruments were all painted across a similar curved plane in the soundstage, almost like how an orchestra curves around a conductor. The Pavane gives a much better sense of depth-related positioning in comparison. Pavane definitely has "taller" imaging as well.

    - The natural timbre of cymbals was one of my biggest annoyances with the Gungnir Multibit. Cymbals could feel unnaturally metallic despite cymbals being made of... um... metal. The Gungnir Multibit did much better than other DACs I've heard with this, but the Pavane is incredibly natural in both timbre and decay. Listening to jazz with the Pavane is a delight as it really highlights the delicacy of cymbals and hi-hats. This also contributes to great ambiance in live performances, with audience clapping sounding so realistic, with the cupped-hand sound of individual claps being quite impressive.

    - The Pavane gets maybe a tad confused in the mids compared to the Gungnir Multibit on very complex, messy and busy tracks. Not sure if others will back this up, and it could just be my experience with specific tracks, but it reminds me a bit of other NOS DACs I've heard.

    Overall I'm loving the Pavane. I was surprised by how big of a step up it is from the Gungnir Multibit, although the price/performance ratio is much worse than it is with the Schiit. It's a great reminder of how good the Gungnir Multibit is, but how much better the Pavane is if you have the dosh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  8. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    As a Gungnir Multibit owner I found this incredibly helpful and the Adagio that much more intriguing. Cheers!
     
  9. MyPetSasquatch

    MyPetSasquatch Friend

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    Glad I could help! I'm highly curious of the Adagio myself, not to mention the new Pavane upgrades to Transient Two modules.
     
  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Adagio is a little fuller and more powerful sounding, a little sharper and more focused, a little more "pop" to everything, but otherwise they're closer in performance to each other than the Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil are.
     
  11. MyPetSasquatch

    MyPetSasquatch Friend

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    I wonder how much of those sonic differences can be attributed to the Transient Two modules vs. the preamp stage...
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Seeing as the preamp portion should just adjust input voltage to the modules, it's certainly an interesting question. We discussed it at the micro meet. There's gotta be an optimal voltage for the modules, just unsure what (is it whatever sets it to a standard 2V/4V output, for example?). If you dial that in exactly, you'd think the difference would be almost entirely due to the modules. In theory...
     
  13. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    I asked Metrum a couple of questions about the Pavane/Adagio, the answers might be useful/interesting to some here:
    My own Pavane L2 arrives in a day or two, I'll post some impressions vs Yggdrasil once I had enough time with it.
     
  14. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Was reading Metrum's Facebook today, and noticed a comment from Cees on the picture "after the Amethyst, it is time to create a new gem".

    One user asked for ditching the USB modules and integrate ethernet and Roon, and Cees said: "Don't worry, both will be possible, for the DACs at the end of the summer".

    So, the new Onix and Jade ("new DAC's at the end of the summer") will have ethernet connectors!

    Also, if you want to replace the usb module for a I2S one, Metrum sells the I2S module for 100€, and guess what connector uses? RJ45 :)
    So, using common sense, everything points to the modules being user repleceable by swapping the USB card and fitting the ethernet card on the other models (Pavane, Adagio, etc.)
     
  15. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    @9suns I read somewhere there's also an MQA module planned.
     
  16. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Yes, post #46 on this page.
     
  17. FredM

    FredM New

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    The MQA option is (mostly) created for the marketing sensitive customers.. at extra costs.
     
  18. FredM

    FredM New

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    An I2S input would indeed be very sweet! I didn't knew this would be a standard option. Very interesting to partner with the (new) Mano I2S streamer. The post can also be interpreted that a Roon endpoint is possible via an Ethernet connection..!?

    Speculation: So with the 2 new Metrum models perhaps several different combinations are possible:
    - Number of DAC TWO modules (2/4/..)
    - I2S input option (?)
    - Roon endpoint ready (?)
    - Pre amp
     
  19. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Just to clarify, the I2S was already an option, so it is nothing new, but you have to order directly from Metrum, and swap the USB module and install the RJ45 I2S yourself.
     
  20. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    I sincerely look forward to that!
     

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