Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    @Priidik Thank you for the impressions. Some trustworthy ears have praised those before and for the money involved seems like it might be worthwhile, although I am interested to build an tube amp too.
    I have been looking at the Crown XLS series as well as that comes prebuilt and 3 year warranty from Thomann is not to be sniffed at. You have any experience with those?
    I run a pair of dual 18" inch subs from my Hypex PSC2.700, and the price is pretty much the same as one Ncore, so I do not think it is worth the financial outlay to DIY in this case.
     
  2. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Proper high-end tube gear has top dog dynamics, it has always been that way.
    Only in low bass the Ncores had clear edge, because they were much cleaner at that.
    Maybe with some different take on psu-s (shunts, superregs etc) might lift it up closer to the tube gear.

    The Ncores might have been better at macro-dynamics than solid-states I have heard. Such things need to be listened side-by-side to be certain.
    The Ncores are not dead sounding like so many solid-state gear out there, nor ghostly/empty bodied like Devialet digi amp which actually had alright macro-dynamics as well.
    The Ncores had no glaring weaknesses, this by itself is a good sign. It didn't sound like crap compared to my EC, while most other amps do.
    At this point your claim that these outperform Ragnarok doesn't sound that outrageous anymore ;)
    For the money, when lots of power is needed, looks like a very good choice.

    Owner of Ncores said that NC500 and up are actually slightly improved in tech from NC400.
     
  3. Malabargold

    Malabargold Flipper

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    I have yet to hear a high end tube power amp so that makes sense. It seems like I need to start attending more hi-fi shows so I can exprience what I might be missing:D

    The comparisons to your EC amp were interesting- Thanks for sharing. Both seem to be high preforming yet very different amplifiers. I understand the bad rep that many class D amps have but these Ncores need to be heard before they are judged IMO. They definitely blur the lines between the two topologies while being the most transparent amps I have listened to so far.
     
  4. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    I got the B&W MM-1 speakers and really prefer them to Genelec 8010 in my small desktop area - in very close nearfield desktop setting they sound quite neutral with better imaging and bass extension, less reflections.. I am a Genelec freak so this is worrying, I thought the MM-1 was a fashionable pc speaker? or perhaps the MM-1's DSP works rather well for nearfield desktop listening.. Any experiences with these (tiny) badboys? I don't want to recommend them yet as I have to spend more time with them
     
  5. music4mhell

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    I have Genelc 8010 pair with Genelec F one sub in my room.. i connect it to Chord Mojo and then dance like monkey while cooking, bathing as i live alone :)
     
  6. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Interesting...Are you using any of the Desktop and/or Bass Tilt controls on the 8010s?
     
  7. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Dude, no offense, but this post has zero useful information in it.
     
  8. music4mhell

    music4mhell New

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    I can sense that. Thanks for you dislike :) I will keep this in mind afterwards.. I am just a newbie .. so will learn slowly :)
     
  9. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    I tried all combinations - I think it failed mostly the lack of low bass, upper bass bloat, and some reflections, i think it even has a filter below 60-50 hz so there was no way to increase the bass with eq at that level ( at low listening levels ).. the MM-1 have some voodoo DSP going on to push the bass response past what is possible given their tiny cabinet size.. Genelec should have gone DSP route with their smallest speakers
     
  10. music4mhell

    music4mhell New

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    Initially i started using bass tilt..but i felt the mids are becoming a bit weak and recessed.. At the end i kept everything unchanged...i keep 8010 on stands..
    If you want really powerful bass impact then you should touch the desktop control...

    If i am not wrong, when you connect the Genelc SUB to monitors, the cut off is 85 Hz.
     
  11. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Yes, bass tilt will affect the mids...the Desktop setting would seem to be more appropriate. And you're running the 7040 as well - on their own the 8010s are not going to deliver much below 65hz.

    Sounds like they're on the desktop? On the Iso-pods? Looking at the MM-1 spec, they go down to 38Hz, but are -6dB at 57Hz, pretty impressive, and they are sealed and DSP'ed for desktop use. My guess is that the MM-1 is a better match for sitting close on a desk, but the 8010 with a sub will be much better on stands a little further away. If you have the motivation I'd love to know what happens if you give the 8010s some more space and lift them off the desk a little. I know it may not be your ideal setup, but I'd like to know if the 8010s do work as well or better if you give them breathing room.

    As an aside, to B&W's credit the aux in bypasses the digital processing and is routed straight to the amp. So you could use a better desktop DAC with them as well. You could see what the DSP is doing if you have a relatively decent source and compare the same track via USB and Aux.
     
  12. limesoft

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    Yup, running the 8010s on desktop + iso-pods, no subwoofer. I agree on stands + sub the Gennies will be superior no doubt, but that's not an option for me. The 8010 roll off quite early in the bass, not a surprise considering their size, perhaps Genelec should have endowed them with longer throw voice coils and removed the low pass filters.

    I don't think the MM-1s bypass the internal DSP via aux in, there's probably ADDA conversion going on there, because the DSP probably applies eq in the digital domain.. however, it's internal DAC sounds quite nice actually, probably loses a little resolution next to Chord Mojo, but not bad
     
  13. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    This suggests otherwise, though I guess they could still AD it and DSP and DA but that would be kinda dumb.

    " Good morning *******,

    Thank you for your email regarding the Bowers & Wilkins MM-1.

    If you decide to use an external DAC, you must use the Aux input of the MM-1. This will bypass the internal DAC of the speaker.

    With kind regards."

    Per HF thread here.
     
  14. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    Well this is interesting! Looking at the graph provided for MM-1 in the headfi post, I'm guessing the internal DAC is the eq'd blue line.. and this would explain the desk type eq dip applied to remove some the mid bass/lower mid bloat you get from the desk, in addition to the sub bass increase to compensate for the small cabinet.. on another note, i'd probably be using AUX in if I had the speakers on stands... i know what i'll be doing tonight :)

    The reason I though it's doing ad conversion is because I tested both inputs via the headphone out, and I didn't notice a significant difference between Chord Mojo aux and MM-1 USB
     
  15. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    Do the MM-1 the typical warm, mellow. slightly dull B&W sound?
     
  16. limesoft

    limesoft Friend

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    no - they're well balanced, smooth and clear/detailed. It's refreshing having tiny speakers that can kick out some serious bass, don't know any other that can do this.. perhaps the iLoud Micro monitors which similarly use DSP, I haven't heard them though
     
  17. music4mhell

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    Nice, i will try using Desktop control tonight and will check if i get the Bass boost without compromising with Mids.
    Thanks for the tips. But as i mentioned earlier, after connecting my 7040 to 8010, the cut off freq for 8010 is 85Hz not 65Hz, correct me if i am wrong.
     
  18. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Yes, that's correct.
     
  19. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    How near do you need to be to appreciate the SQ from some of these portable nearfields like the Genelics and the MM1s?

    Would you be throwing money away expecting them to sound good in a bedroom?
     
  20. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    This should help. Especially with a sub they should rock a bedroom.
     

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