Neurochrome HP-1

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Cspirou, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    There's that *ping* sound followed by a *tick*tick*tick* sound a few feet away, then generally followed by some expletives...
     
  2. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    If I pay attention to the *tick*tick*tick* I can generally find the part. My old place had carpet with about 10-15 mm pile. I've fished many components out of that after they tried to escape. Current place has hardwood. That requires a flashlight to find parts sometimes. It's usually not a big deal.
     
  3. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    My current workspace has a rug with a chairmat on top. When I drop stuff I get about two ticks and then usually it's right on the edge which is helpful. Unless I roll my chair and hear a *crunch*...
     
  4. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    [​IMG]

    "Just because the Jotunheim came and wrecked shop with the 650 doesn't mean I should have been so harsh on my Cayin. They sounded so similar yet the jot was slightly cleaner in background. The Cayin was a little more layered and deep but still bright like the Joti albeit slightly less hard in the treble. Well Cayin, you are earning your place again after taking a beating from the Jotunheim. You are not so bad after all. I quickly forgot how good you were.... sigh..... Out of context for this thread? Nah.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  5. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    Okay well here it goes..

    Neurochrome HP-1 vs Cayin iHA-6

    BASS:
    I think the bass has decent control over the 6XX driver. It has a punchy kind of sound to it. It got my toe tapping fairly easy. I initially thought it was more punchy down low than the Cayin but song after song after song had them about a tie. The Cayin iHA-6 bass is just a little tighter. I noticed this when listening to Jonathan McReynolds - 'Limp'. The HP-1 played the stomps and kick drums with a fatter sound than the 6 and the 6 played it tighter with better focus.

    MIDRANGE:
    The HP-1 is evenly balanced but sounds a little more warm in the lower midrange compared to the Cayin but the Cayin has better air and harmonics. The fundamentals of vocals and the balance of the HP-1 sounds decent but more congealed and flat as if they are missing a bit of realism. They sound like a recording and most usually the Cayin iHA6 is being compared to my Trafomatic Head 2 here and it loses in that department. The iHA-6 is pretty good technically but it is the embodiment of what a solid state amplifier sounds like to me and what Stereophile neutral sounds like so I expected the HP-1 to have more realism. Judging by tone alone, pianos, xylophones, and vocals sound a little more earthy and round but it's missing depth and air to me. In comparison the mids sound more dry on the Cayin but pop out with more realism and even better control and resolution. The decay of most voices I heard was a little cut short it seemed sometimes. The Cayin was faster but reverb trails, echos, and decays lingered in the air with more distinction.

    On my favorite song for testing is Fleet Foxes - 'The Shrine/ Argument' the chorus come in with harmonies and there I noticed how in comparison to the Cayin the reverb layers blended together and the separation of those layers were blurred whereas the Cayin resolved those layers better and made the voices decline into the background with more realism.

    I guess saying the 'hear through' factor is absent for me sums it up and voices really need that to sound convincing.

    TREBLE:
    I found both of these amplifiers to do treble the same in regards to quality. That is: not hard, bold, or sharply etched but about the same in quantity as the Cayin. The Cayin seems brighter but that is because of the upper midrange, lower treble, and upper treble. The middle treble sounds similar to me on both amplifiers. Analog sounding treble that is solid and tangible both is what both of these miss.

    OVERALL BALANCE:
    The earthy and colorfully natural timbre of the midrange sounds like it has a weird spot somewhere in the lower or middle mids that may be an accentuation but honestly I can't really fault the balance of the amplifier. It's balance is pretty even otherwise.

    SOUNDSTAGE:
    This is an area I feel the HP-1 suffers in. It has less depth than my Cayin but about the same width. The Cayin has lost to all amplifiers I have heard at its price or above except for being a little wider/ or equal in width to the Pro but the Pro has much better depth.

    TRANSPARENCY/CLEANLINESS/BLACKGROUND:
    I think the HP-1 does pretty good here. I could 'hear through' easier on my Cayin but I can't definitively say which is clearer. I am close to saying the HP-1 sounds cleaner by just a little bit.

    DYNAMICS/TRANSIENTS/RESOLUTION:
    I want to just combine the rest. I think that it has an upfront and direct sound but I am not getting this 'aggression' people are talking about. Not at all. Actually the Cayin seems a little more aggressive. The Cayin is faster and the transients seem more spritely but they as a brand tune for that kind of thing. The HP-1 does decent with the attacks. The resolution is fair but the Cayin resolves a bit better. Microdynamics are better on the Cayin as well.

    BUILD:
    Let me pause for a second.

    Man....to be honest. I am depressed sharing these impressions because I want a few things. I want an upstanding man with the balls to defend his gear on a forum with people being rude to him to succeed after all of the garbage he put up with. I want to see more manufacturers show good and solid data and stand by it when the put a product out. I'd like to see more bang for buck out there because it's getting deep in the market. However, I can't be dishonest and gloss over the issues I have with this particular piece of gear.

    I cannot assess the durability because this is only a week loaner. After all of the hands it has been through the amp still looks new but I would not stack anything heavy on it because the chassis bends in at the push of a finger. The knob is nowhere near close to as nice as the Cayin which is only 999. It doesn't turn with the resistance and smoothness something of this price should. It looks like DIY and feels it.

    VERDICT

    The amp sounds like it can measure good. I mean it's relatively clear and is not grainy but until someone throws up measurements of soundstage, microdynamics, depth, layering, 'hear through factor' and that special instant connection factor, measurements can only show so much. You have to.... HAVE to combine lots of subjectivity. 100% subjectivity (all you can say you prefer) and 100% objectivity(all you can reasonably exploit in regards to testing) not 50/50.

    This amp based on the Cayin iHA6 being on the market and Jotunheim a lone is very overpriced at 1299. The only aspects it has that peak its head into that tier of the market is control, and low distortion. The Cayin sits in its spot with a little shakiness like it just won easily but knows it's spot is not there forever.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  6. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    I suppose the pricepoint makes more sense if you purchase the PCB and DIY, so it becomes cheaper, and building it pays off as a side project as well. The completed amp is priced high arguably so less people ask Tom to build it.
     
  7. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    Thanks for the write-up. I appreciate it. It's always good to hear people's impressions.

    I agree that the chassis is a limiting factor as far as the overall experience goes. I can deliver precision electronics. I now need to back it up with a precision enclosure. Gimme time. I'll get there. Of course, that then opens up a whole new Costco-sized can of worms in terms of branding and how to differentiate between DIY and fully assembled. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

    Tom
     
  8. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    I will admit that there is an element of that in my pricing for sure. There's a lot of psychology in pricing as well.

    Tom
     
  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    OK so here is my setup:

    POS HP laptop (USB) -> Focusrite 2i2 -> HP-1/Jotun -> HD600

    The 2i2 is proly not that great as an single ended (SE) DAC. But it's IMO fairly good as a balanced (BAL) DAC. And the 2i2 will be used as a BAL DAC in this impressions sharing deal.

    Differential connections between the 2i2 and amps furbished by Monoprice awesome sauce cables. They are fat, long and black. And the amps and DAC seem to moan and groan when I plug them slow and deep Monoprice style.

    Some might be wondering why I'm comparing a $400 amp with a >$1K amp. Well, because they are the best I have around. Because both amps take the 2i2 BAL outputs. Because many folks seem to be familiar with the Jot and not the HP-1, and so the Jot might serve as a baseline. And because f**k you. Looking at these amps and their sheer awesomeness (specially the Jot shiny body) probably made my dick grow a few inches obviously.

    So lets start with a few songs I'm familiar with.

    La Unión - Lobo Hombre en Paris

    Jotun - Pretty lively and perhaps a bit bright. A little echo, but that could be recording. Have to lower the volume as the highs are bothering me a little. The volume pot feels good. Good overall signature. Not super resolving.

    HP-1 - Lowest gain is definitively not unity. I already knew that, but relative to the Jotun this is pretty apparent. Not bright or lively at all. Very neutral. Extremely detailed. Superb signature. Maybe it is my lack of exposure to super high end shit, but this is an extremely resolving amp. The bass digs dip. This is all kinds of awesome with this song. I want to keep playing good shit through this amp, it's addictive, f**k you Tom.

    Madonna - True Blue

    Jotun - Splash!!! Something about the treble. Not bad with this song though. Good deep bass. Madonna's voice comes through like butter.

    HP-1 - Good bass control. Very involving. Highs are well presented and with awesome delineation. Great instrument separation, as in no mush. Song is played effortlessly. If Madonna had ballz, this amp would be playing with them like a boss.

    Mecano - La fuerza del destino

    Jotun - Bass not as deep as the HP-1. Good, but IMO not as good. Good mids.

    HP-1 - Awesome bass. I can hear everything. Even some dude that is mumbling the song and shouldn't. My ears just want more. Organ comes out really nice. Let me reiterate this: This amp can resolve like a mother Porker.

    Ok I could go on, but to me sonics are far superior on the HP-1. Yes, I know about the price difference. And it's mighty good that the HP-1 kills it in the sound department because it's looks do not make my dick grow as much as the looks of the Jotun.

    @tomchr, as an audio amp, this is a great accomplishment. And IMO it delivers the goods like a champ. It is not going to win display time at Tiffany's, but it definitively delivers reference level resolution and superior sonic qualities to the table .
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  10. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    One review, two dick growth events. Impressive.
     
  11. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    @bazelio, the HP-1 is a great amp. @tomchr did a great job.

    I will just have to face the fact that my dick will come back to it's normal boring size once these amps leave the building.

    I'm still going through songs with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  12. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    Guess that's why the new chassis is blue. All that's left is to have it be in a diamond shape.
     
  13. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Some of the nicest looking eye-candy head-amps I've seen are as follows:

    http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/blog/audio-technica-at-h5050h-headphone_amplifier/

    http://www.headamp.com/order/headamp-aristaeus/ (this one is a stat, whatever, it looks awesome)

    http://www.headamp.com/order/blue-hawaii-special-edition/ (obviously)

    and so forth.

    I love the color (black), but I would go for a little more bling. Maybe some extinct tree wood side panels. Some cursive laser engravings. Analog VU meters. Two or four mini-lava lamps on the top. I dunno.

    (@tomchr, I'm sort of kidding. There are indeed crazy good looking amps, that cost correspondingly more because of it, but the amp looks fine. I do prefer black to blue).

    Again, sound quality wise, zero complains.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  14. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    My comment was supposed to evoke the blue diamond pill actually... ;) Boost for the el dongerino.

    Eyecandy wise: I quite like the classically good looks of the Yamaha S3000, but that's an integrated that happens to have headphone out, not headphone amp.
     
  15. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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  16. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    Just rotate it 45º on the shelf... See! I'm an engineer. I solve problems. :)

    That's a bit much for me. I do understand that big and heavy sells, but the engineer in me is squirming in his seat. And not from excitement or that ... um ... "lifestyle product" Armaegis pointed out.

    Yep. Wood can be really nice if done right.

    That's more my style. Skip the fins on the side unless necessary for technical reasons.

    I thought those were vacuum tubes... ;)

    Long term, I would like to offer cool-looking amps like that at those prices. I wouldn't have to sell very many each month to make that completely worth the effort.

    It's funny with the pushback against the blue as it came about from pushback against the black. One option would be to just offer a few choices. Blue, black, red, maybe grey. See what sells.

    It's good to know that at least the HP-1 sounds good and is generally liked. That's the important thing here. I can provide it with a new wardrobe later. Thank you for your review. I really appreciate it.

    Tom
     
  17. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    It is a very good amp. I don't usually make a big fuss about DACs and amps. I tend to be more of a headphone or driver person, because honestly I can tell more of a difference with those than otherwise.

    However, the HP-1 did let through some detail that I found less obvious with some other amps. I think the fact that the 2i2 does well balanced helped things out a bit. But I don't think that's the whole story. I believe the amp did fantastic. The amp did not transform headphones into something else. But one can clearly see why @Marvey keeps saying the HD6x0s scale with better gear. Like I said, even the bass was better. Now, I know HD600s don't dig super deep in the sub-bass area. But I also know that phase can get weird on the transition bands, so maybe that's what's going on. Detail for me had more to do with picking up little things, like audience reactions in a recording. The ambience and stuff like that.

    I was also surprised that the "signature" of the amp (or whatever one wants to call it) did not cause me to think it was bright. I'm not writing this "brightness" out to FR only. Maybe there is something in there in the non-linear distortion performance. I dunno. But this amp did not drill my ears with some songs. And that surprised me. I was fully expecting the opposite.

    I'm not making any favors. If I thought the HP-1 was mediocre I would proly not be an asshole. But my reaction to it would have been more tempered.

    BTW, note the Jotun is not shit. In it's price point I find it very hard to beat. Probably the top amp in it's class. It's a very feature rich amp amp, and it looks really nice. The fact that I liked the HP-1 better in some areas is IMO not a negligible data point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  18. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    To each his own as far as eye candy goes. But @ultrabike , holy shit, that first Audio Technica thing would look right at home on a shelf in 1987 with a "Technics" ensignia on the upper right. o_O

    I like simple and clean. Thomas Mayer builds some of the most visually appealing amps (to me) out there. I also love the look of DSHA amps by @dsavitsk such as the two he brought to the LA meet.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  19. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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    Magnificent amp there. Also the AT amp he mentioned, while pretty, sounds like total ass.
     
  20. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I wouldn't know. I only know it has VU meters, a shit load of jacks and the volume knob is big. It looks expensive and it is the porn.
     

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