New LCD-4 vs Utopia shootout from Innerfidelity.

There aren't many LCD-4 owners here are there? Only @Torq and @jacq come to mind...

 

Yep, I own a set of LCD-4.

Currently dealing with Audeze on a warranty issue ... or trying to at least, so mine are currently out of commission.

 

So the only 2 owners here & one of them has a quality control issue that needs to be dealt with Audeze?

This actually makes me more interested in Tyll's finding, if he does get 4 different ones to test the variants.

 

Nothing new here. Sadly this is never-ending story of Audeze's existence.

pick one

 

It irked me when Bob Katz said manufacturers, especially Focal, have variation problems, but Audeze might have a small one

 

I would say it's a lot harder to make PM headphones than dynamic ones.

 

It may be harder to get a consistebt sound, but it came off a bit weird given its one ofthe bigger critiques Audeze faces (or used to; new 2016 stuff seems pretty consistent)

 

This issue is with the mounts on the headband not holding the rods properly, rather than being a driver issue. Though why this requires an RTB repair is utterly beyond me ... they sell the entire assembly separately.

Not that this excuses QC issues, but they were, at least, fine when I got them.

Maybe ... though the issue has nothing to do with them being planar-magnetic.

Regardless, it doesn't excuse having someone manning the support line that a) can't EVER return a call, b) takes multiple attempts to get any action, c) doesn't seem to have any authority to authorize anything, d) seems perpetually baffled with the simplest issues, and e) as far as I can tell NEVER does what they say they will do.

They're selling $4,000 headphones ... which, in that market, is a SUPER premium product. And, at least in my world, warrants half-way reasonable support. I used to have a lot of sympathy for a small, disruptive, innovative player in the market ... but this is just fundamental incompetence and/or lack of giving a damn.

...

In the event that I get my cans fixed before you lose interest in measuring them, I'll happily send them your way. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one though.

--

See update, below.

 

This is, incidentally, half of the reason HiFi-Man permanently fucked their way out of my sphere of interest.

Audeze are about a day and a half from going the same way.

See update, below.

 

That makes sense and might well be, but it doesn't really help me understand the quote from bob that @TheBarnard posted above. Maybe it's an apples oranges comparison, but it strikes me as weird and basically inaccurate based on all the evidence I've seen and experiences I've read about to conclude that focal has larger qc issues / variance than audeze. It even seems unnecessary to try to make that comparison.

 

@ 4000$ there should be no excuses....

You pretty much missed the point. The thing is that even Tyll didn't know that the review pair was defect. Now if it turns out that the review pair was defect and it "improved" the sound, then we have a problem here.

But my point was that when Tyll says "The best headphone in the world". It has influence on the whole TOTL headphone market. It doesn't matter if you have 50$ or 500 000$ in your bank account. Even Tyll didn't know the pair was defect.

And the argument "What makes you thing i can't afford 4000$ headphones?" belongs to another thread.

 

After my experience with my LCD3f (driver failure, 3 times in 6 months) I did take a gamble and tried the 4's. I only kept them for about 2 months for fear they wouldn't last. When I took them off/put them on one side made a flapping sound - like a plastic bag flapping in the wind. I've completely sworn off Audeze now.

They sounded pretty good, I suppose, though I found them very uncomfortable.

I would be interested to see how a loaner pair would fair.

 

So if I get it right: between LCD3 and LCD4 you got eight months of use from four pairs of drivers at the cost app CAD$9254, by BayBloor Radio prices, including tax. That's about $6857.
Man, you give up so easily.

 

Not quite - The LCD3's were bought new from a dealer so they had (thankfully) a full warranty. I bought them from Charles. They lasted about 2 months (if I recall) before they failed the first time: one side failed. When they came back from Audeze, the other side driver was not working out fo the box (high five for QC). I shipped them back, again, and they came back working fine. About a month later one side gave up. I shipped them back and they shipped me a brand new seal pair. I sold them like that - still sealed.

Dealing with Audeze was a mixed bag. On my first claim, I filled out the form on their website. After a week of no reply and a follow up email, I called Charles and he gave me the number of the rep. I called them and they got me in touch with a lady named Tasvee at Audeze. She was very helpful, would call on the phone to update me, etc. but stopped working at Audeze and I ended up dealing with generic "Audeze LLC" (no actual name on the emails anymore and no phone calls). From there service ranged from okay to down right rude.

I was left with the distinct taste that Audeze cares more about money than customers. But I feel that way about them for more reasons than just my direct dealings with them. The way many people feel about Fang is how I feel about them: at least Fang show's his face.

All in all, with the LCD3's they spent more time with Audeze and the post office than they did with me.

The LCD4's actually lasted the whole two months I had them but started to make that plastic flapping sound. I wasn't going to tempt fate so they were quickly sold.

Of all the headphones I've been through, my Audeze's sounded very nice and smooth but I don't miss them at all. Other headphones I miss, and few I consider buying again, but not the LCD's.

 

So, either Audeze reads SBAF ... or someone here gave them a prod over the issue with my LCD-4, since they contacted me directly* this morning. Assuming they do as they say (and based on the conversation I had I'm fairly sure they will), my issue should be resolved this week and without needing to send anything anywhere.

Chatting with them, apparently they've revamped and restaffed their support/help desk, acknowledged the former issues and apologized for them.

--

(*Since they contacted me via Head-Fi I'm assuming it was someone here pointing them at that post and/or this thread). Either way, that's a welcome development.

 

It seems that you don't have the capacity to understand my point here.

Again my point is why i am referring To Tyll so much is that pretty much he is the only trusted reviewer on these types of things. Not everyone has the possibility to test different TOTL headphones. Even if you have 4000$ to spend on a pair of headphones. So you have to take someones word for it. And if you are going to listen someone, you might listen to someone who
a) has done this for many years
b) hasn't personally invested on the product
c) is generally trusted in the community

Never did i say that Focal specifically tuned the pair for Tyll....

Test 11 pairs of HD800S's and then tell me that it isn't fishy that out of 11 pairs, 1 drastically different out of other 10.

 

Okay, dude. You’re right, it is an issue that so many will have been influenced on a false premise. Whether it was premeditated, or not.

But:

1. You’re coming across as increasingly combative toward people who have no responsibility in the matter.
2. As far as we currently know it was primarily the tonality effected, not the overall technical performance. Though there was also variation in the impedance curves.
3. Ultimately once people listen to it themselves, if they like it they like, if they don't they don’t. One review won’t change that.
4. Here at SBAF most do not take one persons opinion as gospel, even Grand Pappy Tyll's. So here specifically the effect of this event will have been very limited.

None of the above points invalidate the first paragraph.

 

1. I never said that it was the reviewers fault.
2. The pair that was tested was toned down in the treble section. (According to Frequency response) In the review TYLL said "Really good transient response and resolve in the treble". From the previous reviews we know that the sound signature that TYLL doesn't like is peak at treble/or he tens not to prefer more treble oriented headphones. I don't know will this conclusion be affected if Tyll tests the "correct" pair of Utopias. Time will tell, but it is different. Also one note is that in the "normal" utopias, many users have suggested that the utopias tend to be more "treble oriented"
3. This is true, i don't deny this. But again SOME people might make decision based on one persons review, if the reviewer is well known and respected. But generally this is true.
4. I agree. I will give credit here that most of SBAF readers are pretty critical and usually won't make judgment based on 1. persons review.

....But the looking at the whole market section. Focal used Tyll's review on their Utopia website. Given the fact that the review pair was basically defect, the one persons purchase decision might base on the marketing and on the 1. review he/she reads/watches. I know this isn't likely cause we are talking so expensive enthusiast based product here. But it is possible.

Look, we (and I) are making a mountain out of a molehill here. It is good that Tyll is addressing this "issue" as soon as he find out about it. All credit to him.

ps. I was going to write about the HD800S and how the bass distortion that Tyll founded out about that carried to some peoples review on the later term. But it might best to just leave this here...............