New Schiit / Preamps and Power Amp (was Putting the Schiit Signal Up)

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by purr1n, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. Big D Design

    Big D Design RIP 2021

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Region, FL
    After some research AVS Forums points out that the ART CleanBoxPro actually only measures down to 30hz, even though the specs say 20hz. There is a mod for it, but I have also read that the S/N ratio is only 90db. Humbug.

    So I have canned that and have come up with something else for the fix of my subwoofer gain problem (see above) with a S/N of 113db and goes down to 10hz. "Should work". It has 16db of gain.
    I don't want to get picked on (you know I'm a "Rando"), so I am keeping the solution a secret until I test it out. I will have the item in my hands this week.

    Spent more time with the Freya and I must say that it is throwing body to the music they way I had hoped. Will know more when Modi Multibit arrives and some FLAC files get played. 3 hours of listening and no fatigue. Artist is now in the room with me instead of just coming out of the speakers. Still have adjusting to do with the DAC coming and it looks like the soundstage will be finally like sitting in a venue and listening to the artist. The Freya has harnessed the music, and any 3 dimensional type of magic that shouldn't be there has gone away into fairy dust. The Freya now has proper instrument placement. Hearing things that I didn't know were there in the recordings. Impressive so far and exactly what the doctor is looking for in tone.
     
  2. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

    Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,999
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tempe, Arizona
    Wouldn't an active or passive DI box work?
     
  3. Big D Design

    Big D Design RIP 2021

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Region, FL
    @cskippy "Wouldn't an active or passive DI box work?"

    I came across this box Rolls MB15b Promatch (Active). The specs don't reveal how low the hz goes. It has the ability to be a solution with RCA and XLR inputs and outputs.
    I have ordered the Rolls MB15b Promatch, along with 2 other secret things that I will be testing this week. Spent around $250.00 altogether. Modi Multibit can't come in the mail quick enough so that I can see the gain that unit introduces into the equation.

     
  4. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,521
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    London, UK
    I have popcorn ready for when it does- hoping to see you being pleasantly surprised.

    It has a lovely tone for the price. Do remember, though, that it won't sound its best right away- once it has been switched on for a while (at least a couple of hours, some say a day), it will be be more accurate.

    (Danger, habit-forming tech in there.. you'll find yourself eyeing up bigger ones, just you wait..)
     
  5. khragon

    khragon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Anyone compared saga vs freya tube output yet? What's the verdict?
     
  6. cizx

    cizx Friend

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    USA
    Quick assessments seem to indicate that Saga is a bit more transparent and Freya is a bit more "bloomy"

    Per Marv's post.

    I haven't seen anything more in depth.
     
  7. Big D Design

    Big D Design RIP 2021

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Region, FL
    @Kattefjaes
    Just getting ready for my 3rd day with Modi Multibit and Freya added to my NuPrime STA-9 and Martin Logan ESLs. Modi Multibit produces such a great tone to instruments and voices male and female. The Martin Logans have disappeared and music just is in the air. I cannot overemphasize how realistic the presentation is. I'm still working on getting my Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 sub properly setup. I'm not quite there yet. Listening using FLAC files thru Modi Multibit and I gotta say that it is REALLY WORTH THE MONEY. My god, there is something in that Multi-Bit chip that I like. Some may want a wider soundstage or more treble. That is not what I am looking for. I want real. And real is not crazy like that. Just gotta say that Schiit has upped my sound tenfold. And I'm really liking the NuPrime STA-9 in combination with it. It is a great amp for my MLs. My MLs are very fussy, and don't like crap. They just sound terrible with substandard equipment. But now I have something that actually won't embarrass even the most picky audiophile. With some more tuning... I will be done with the living room and will be onto a headphone setup for my dining room (that's where my office setup is). I have a nice open floor plan from the living room to the dining room and am very happy right now. My Acer Switch Alpha 12 (Surface 4 clone) is playing FLAC files with the Groove App. QHD IPS screen and Groove just works with the 150% scaling needed. I do think about a REL subwoofer being introduced into the system instead of my Dynamo 1000, but I'm still adjusting the Dynamo. REL is something that I have not yeat heard. But I like the technology behind it. And it could improve the sound to another level. Would love to try one with the SpeakOn setup. Levels would be spot on then with gains from amp and sub.

    More to come....
    I will be doing a review in a separate thread when I go thru the stuff I ordered and see what gives with a little tweaking of gains and more. My lady's sister is arriving today and staying at a rental a few blocks away (thank God), so it will be a few days before I can really did in and test everything I have planned.

    Everyone seems nice here. Thanks for caring. Place is pretty cool.
     
  8. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,521
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    London, UK
    @Big D Design - you sound like a man who is having way too much fun. So glad you like your new DAC, enjoying the tonality of the multibit sound. It's very keen pricing for such a potent gateway drug.

    You can probably have a more impressive stage and the precise treble with the multibit sound from the Yggdrasil, mind you, should you eventually feel that way. It's about 10x the price, and quite hulking on the shelf, mind.

    Anyway, for now, enjoy the hell out of your Modi Multibit, and have fun hearing your favourite tunes come to life as you tweak your system. That little DAC has to be one of the finest bargains in audio right now...
     
  9. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    have been soooo tempted to make a @schiit buy for DAC (Modi Multibit or Gungnir Multibit) + preAmp (Saga or Freya) to put behind Jotunheim with the HE1K.

    might just endure the wait for a potential Mjolnir3 (pure guess) someday to incorporate lessons/gains learned from the preAmp and Jotun engineering efforts.....
    would drool for a Mjolnir3 to have: stepped attenuator, 6SN7 tubes, some depth of stage, Jotun speed + clarity, etc.
    but hey- what do I know? call me crazy.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I am concerned that adapters might not fit. Bigger holes might need to be cut above. I plan on trying this. 7N7 is the same electrically as 6SN7. Their sound is uniform - maybe three types made. They are great tubes, but do not tell anyone. If you mention this on HF, I will ban you. I have a stash of them.
     
  11. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

    Staff Member Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,893
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Seattle
    Man, those things are inexpensive. Color me interested to hearing about how this goes.

    Also, one of these preamps needs to to go on tour. I'll even fork over some cash to help fund this.
     
  12. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Consider the use case before making a decision. Referring to both as "tube output" (as if they were interchangeable) can be misleading.
    • "I don't need gain, because my speakers are very efficient or my power amp can meet my gain/loudness requirements on its own." USE:
      • Passive - available on both Freya and Saga
      • JFET Buffer - available on Freya
      • Tube buffer - available on Saga
    • "I need gain, because my speakers are inefficient or my power amp can't meet my gain/loudness requirements on its own." USE:
      • Tube gain-stage - available on Freya
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  13. khragon

    khragon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thanks! that's very helpful.

    If I don't need the gain, but like to add tube to my signal path, how would one describe the sound characteristic between saga and freya? From cixz's post above, looks to me saga is more transparent, which could be good if it still add in a bit of that tube midrange lushness.
     
  14. beemerphile

    beemerphile Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Danielsville, GA USA
    Schiit drivs me crazy with their insistence of placing the power switch on the rear. One could make a case for it if the device is intended to remain energized, as much of their equipment is. However, with tubed equipment like the Freya (and a few others) where their direct recommendation in the owner's manual is to turn it off when not in use, why in the hell do they STILL put the switch on the back? Most setups that I have owned (or seen) to not facilitate easy access to the rear of the components.

    "Calling Jason to the White Courtesy Telephone!"
     
  15. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    Question about the Vidar in mono mode.

    Does it need a "true" balanced signal? As in the second pin is the same signal with inverted phase. Or will it work with the Saga and some RCA -> XLR cables?
     
  16. Daveheart

    Daveheart Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    566
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Not that I know for certain, but I would assume that it's for cost reduction with their usual chassis design. It's likely cheaper to have the additional hole punched out of the steel on the back. If they had a power switch on the front, they'd also probably have a different switch than the normal toggle they use so that it wouldn't stick out so much. That would add another part they'd have to keep stocked that would be relevant in fewer designs and would be purchased in lower quantities (again adding to the cost).

    It's of course possible that I'm completely wrong here, but it makes sense to me. Sorry that it's inconvenienced you a bit though.
     
  17. landroni

    landroni Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,164
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Performance. As per @schiit:


    And if you're still unconvinced, here's some more relevant reading:
    Why You Can’t Always Get What You Want
     
  18. beemerphile

    beemerphile Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Danielsville, GA USA
    I'm still unconvinced. If it produced higher performance and improved efficiency to put the start switch on a car under the hood, I'd still want mine on the dashboard where everybody else's start switches are. I'd also figure that a bright enough engineer could figure out how to do it with minimal sacrifice.

    I have a good bit of Schiit gear from a SYS to a Yggdrasil. The SYS doesn't have a power switch and the Yggdrasil just as well not have one. However, even though I am "wrong", the rear power switch on the preamp will keep me from buying one. Just would not work in my set-up.
     
  19. landroni

    landroni Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,164
    Trophy Points:
    93
    How much I'd wish to be able to wield a Dislike right now... Anyway, we're talking about delicate analogue gear (or gear with delicate analogue sections). It is entirely possible that it is NEVER optimal to compromise the placement of the transformers in this instance.

    SYS is fully passive.

    You absolutely sure about this? Just because you don't usually use one doesn't mean it's not there.

    As @schiit tends to say: They're NOT trying to please you. If you're unhappy with any aspect of Schiit's gear, it's a free market. Find a manufacturer that puts power switches on the front and choose that. ;)
     
  20. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    This is sort of a non-issue to me. Walls don't typically have enough outlets to accommodate everything on an equipment rack. Which means every single setup I have seen goes through a power strip and those power strips have an on/off switch. In fact back in the 90's I used something like this for my desktop with individual switches:

    http://www.recycledgoods.com/power-center-pc-006-6-switch-under-monitor-power-center.html

    I'm sure you can find something more elegant if you don't like blinding orange.

    I was more disappointed with the lack of a 12v trigger. But it's ok because I will homebrew one for my setup.

    PS.

    The power center was also because my PC, monitor and printer all had switches in back
     

Share This Page