New Schiit Vali 2 Discussion Thread

Congrats on getting your Pi music player running!

 

Seems to mirror exactly what I found when comparing the stock 6BZ7 to the Gold Lion E88CC. Interesting to read that the EH 6922 brought out more details than the E88CC considering that the EH 6922 is around half the price, at least on Amazon.

 

Has anyone here tried a LISST "tube" in the Vali 2? I've read elsewhere that they are technically compatible but not officially supported.

 

From the Vali 2 FAQ on Schiit's website:

Hey, can you use LISST in this?
Sure you can, but why? Magni 2 Uber is a better, more powerful, and less expensive choice for a solid-state amp.

 

Just received a Raytheon JRP 5670 double mica and adapter today. Listening to it right now, probably the best tube so far that I've heard on the Vali 2! Highly recommended. Thanks SBAF I have a Telefunken PCC88 wending its way to me as I write. Expect my write up in a couple of weeks, need some more listening time

 

I have yet to try a 5670 tube in the Vali 2, and all these positive remarks about em make me curious. Continuing the Raytheon train - A few weeks ago I managed to pick up a USA made NOS Raytheon 6CG7 with grey plates and thought it sounded fantastic. It's one of my favorites - lots of energy and seems to punch through the roll-off at the extremes (might have a slight U-shaped sound.) It was also pretty cheap, money well spent IMO. I might have to plug it in tonight .

 

That's great that you're enjoying your 6CG7

I have a Sylvania 6CG7, black plates, red text - will be in the write up when I get round to it. Lots of energy but strangely recessed mids (maybe just too lean) and un-engaging with certain genres of music, eg orchestral. I don't know if all the 6CG7's sound similar or not, but I previously owned GE 6CG7 grey plates and it exhibited similar sound characteristics on the Vali 2 to the Sylvania.

Addendum: I think you are probably right about the U-shaped sound of the 6CG7.

 

I bought my Raytheon 5670 from an ebay UK seller. He has more than 10 in stock, only £15 inc. postage within the UK. They sell to the USA from their online shop, they're in stock at $22.95, http://www.tube-shop.com/ . It's definitely a step up from the Sylvania 6CG7.

Addendum: These 5670's are really forward, I'm experiencing a small amount of ear fatigue. Will begin making some notes for the write up hopefully this weekend.

 

I did some listening to the 6CG7 Raytheon last night. Lots of energy, sounded really good at first, but was too forward to enjoy for long. Listening fatigue set in and I once again realized why I prefer the Orange Globe 6DJ8.

I have an Amperex A-Frame 6DJ8 Blackburn (Mullard Factory) sitting around and decided to try it. Against the Orange Globe, it had more bass, but the bass lacked definition. Mids were roughly the same, and I think I heard a peak in the highs but for the most part the Orange Globes highs are a little better in both balance and tonality.

 

@Changeling

In your fantastic Tube Rolling Nervosa post you recommended the Telefunken E88CC if not using IVS. Is this correct or did you mean the Telefunken ECC88?

I'm currently enjoying a Telefunken PCC88 in my Vali 2. It is a very special tube

 

Any would be good. I really enjoyed the Telefunken E88CC. It's a great tube but expensive. The ECC88 is also good and can be found for less money. But with IVS I find the tube play a lesser role.
Right now I'm using a Siemens E288CC and that sounds good too

The E88CC is the better tube but for the money and for Vali2 - no way.

 

Hello, here are some tube impressions for the Vali 2. To be honest, I've been struggling a bit to describe the differences I hear between tubes, sometimes the differences are quite subtle and perceived differences can sometimes become less apparent depending on the music. Additionally, I found it quite tiring listening to multiple tubes over multiple tracks. My perception definitely changes if I get too tired.

Spoiler: Music

I've been listening to a variety of music, including:
Rage Against the Machine – Know Your Enemy (FLAC rip original CD)
Chris Huelsbeck – Traps, Turrican II Orchestral Album (FLAC rip)
Rihanna – Diamonds, This is What You Came For, Work (Spotify, YouTube)
And many other tracks, mostly popular music but also video game soundtracks and some acoustic guitar.

Spoiler: Equipment and tubes tested

The comparisons were performed with the following setup:
M-Audio Audiophile 192 --> Belden 1694A BNC --> Gungnir Multibit --> Vali 2 --> HD650

The tubes I have been listening to (plus approx amount I paid inc. shipping):
Stock Canada 6BZ7
Philips Miniwatt PCC88 (halo getter), £7, used
Tungsram PCC88 (red numbering, halo getter), £13, NOS
Valvo PCC88 (La Radiotechnique, halo getter), £13, used
Telefunken PCC88 (Ulm, 1969, halo getter), £28, used
Sylvania 6CG7 (red lettering, halo getter), £26, NOS
Raytheon JRP 5670, £15 (excluding adapter cost), NOS

Stock 6BZ7
This tube sounds acceptable, unless you have heard better. I would describe this tube as unrefined and crunchy, with some harshness. Soundstage is okay, and the tube exhibits good energy. With Know Your Enemy, guitars seemed a bit forward and vocals pushed back slightly – but I think that this could be a characteristic of the track. Busy guitar sections, particularly the last minute or so of Know Your Enemy sound rough, vocals sound course, and it generally sounds somewhat messy with a loss of detail / resolution.

Philips Miniwatt PCC88
This tube is much smoother than 6BZ7, it is neither gritty nor course. It has a more relaxed presentation and is easy to listen to. However, I did not find it particularly exciting or engaging. Again, vocals were a bit recessed. I found the sound to generally be a bit muffled and smoothed over compared to later tubes.

Tungsram PCC88
Now, this is starting to get a bit more like it. This tube is much clearer and engaging. Everything sounds much more forward (perhaps too forward). Drum strikes are tight and impactful. Vocals are more forward compared to previous tubes. It is easier to hear subtleties of the bass guitar and other instruments. This tube can get fatiguing and can sound harsh depending on the music. I'm not sure if I'm hearing a narrower soundstage with this tube compared to later tubes or whether the effect is due to the uniform forwardness making instrument separation less easy to perceive.

Valvo PCC88
Does not suffer from the uniform forwardness of the Tungsram and is more resolving. Therefore has better soundstage and instrument separation. It is now possible to more easily hear details and subtleties in the music, even small mistakes are more audible. This tube is non-fatiguing and easy to listen to and doesn't sound rolled off. Compared to the Telefunken below, some instruments are further forward and vocals are slightly recessed. Some instruments seem like they may be too prominant (compared to the Telefunken). But it depends on the music whether this is a good thing or not. It is less smooth than the Telefunken with a hint of grit.

Telefunken PCC88
The Telefunken and the Valvo are quite similar, relative to the other tubes. The main difference being a different frequency / instrument emphasis. The Telefunken is superbly balanced and nothing sticks out. Vocals are well centered, clear and forward. The sound is crystal clear and sparkly but non-fatiguing. Sometimes it may be a litle too sparkly and resolving, but this is like complaining that a Ferrari is too fast. This is definitely the most resolving tube. It can sometimes sound a bit thin, but I believe this is because it does not embellish the music. It is a pleasure to listen to. It is smoother than the Valvo, sounds both natural & neutral, and exciting & energetic. This is by far the best tube in this comparison. I think I got lucky with what I paid for it.

Sylvania 6CG7
This tube is nice and tight like the Valvo and Telefunken. It is not harsh and has excellent bass and treble. Unfortunately, the mids are somewhat strange, sounding dull, flat and distant. This seems to affect the soundstage and makes the music both less involving and ultimately boring. With some music genres (such as house), the recessed mids are not necessarily a bad thing, but it sucks the life out of some music (such as orchestral).

Raytheon JRP 5670 (plus adapter)
Wow, this tube will blow your hat off! I recommend turning the volume down a smidgen compared to the other tubes. It has a lot of energy and is great fun to listen to, especially for tracks that may be rendered too thinly by the Telefunken. This tube is very forward and has a loose presentation. The bass in particular, has a noticeable looseness. I believe that it is this looseness that adds some body to the sound and makes it engaging and fun. It is not as resolving nor as technically competent as the Telefunken. However, neither is it harsh. It has a wide soundstage with good instrument separation and balance. It feels like sounds are coming at you from all over the place. I think that it is this sonic bombardment combined with the loose presentation that can make this tube fatiguing. I cannot listen to this tube for an extended period of time without experiencing ear fatigue.

Spoiler: Recommendations

Recommendations
Telefunken PCC88, Valvo PCC88, Raytheon JRP 5670 (with caveats)

I'm planning to try a couple more 5670's, see if I can get one that is less fatiguing whilst retaining the excitement and soundstage of the Raytheon. I will also look out for other PCC88 bargains, but will be strictly limiting how much I spend.

 

@mrflibble Nice write-up, well done!

 

Your description of the 6CG7 closely matches my own issues with it on the Valhalla 2 @mrflibble. Good post. Any clue what year range that Telefunken is from?

Edit: Never mind, I see I missed the spoiler box before.

 

1969 I think. The code is U8109222 . It is now rubbed off due to all the tube swapping, good job I made a note of it.

 

Have done some more listening to the Raytheon 5670, it is definitely a fun tube but I find it just a bit too loose and lacking in detail with some music. I am obviously being spoiled by the Telefunken!

I've bought three more tubes, looks like I am suffering from tube nervosa. Two were cheap and one not so cheap. I know I said I'd be strict about spending money on tubes, but I couldn't resist On the way to my humble abode, we have a used Valvo PCC189 (£5), a well used GE 5* 5670 (£8.50), a Valvo E288CC Red Logo, looks NOS (£39) .

Will report back after the auditions, will probably be in a few weeks.

 

Here are some early comments, prior to a more detailed write up, regarding the Valvo PCC189 and Valvo E288CC tubes that I've been listening to over the past couple of days or so.

Both of these tubes were manufactured by Valvo in the Hamburg factory, 1962. They both trump all the previous tubes in my earlier review. Compared to the Telefunken PCC88, both of these tubes exhibit a more cohesive and three dimensional soundstage. The Telefunken sounds comparatively flat and less involving in comparison. The two Valvo's sound more cohesive, whereas instruments with the Telefunken sometimes sound too separated from. The Telefunken is a tad thin and bass light, I was hearing this in my earlier review but hadn't twigged that it was the bass at the time.

The E288CC is the more refined of the two Valvo tubes and I believe it has a bit more detail retrieval (I need to perform more listening to confirm this). It is smoother and more laid back than the PCC189. The E288CC exhibits an almost holographic 3D quality, the PCC189 seems to also have this characteristic but to a much lesser extent. The PCC189 is more forward than the E288CC and has more punch. Technically, the E288CC is the better tube, but I think the PCC189 with its more forward nature suits the Vali 2 better. Perhaps with a more capable amp, the gap between the two tubes would be greater.

The Valvo PCC189 only cost me £5 (and £4 of that was shipping)! There are many PCC189's on ebay from Europe, I definitely recommend trying a few out. They are generally cheaper than other ECC88 variants, I guess people haven't discovered them yet

 

Curious if the Vali 2 has ever been sold in black? Anyone know?

 

Don't think so. Or Mjo2 I've never seen in black.

 

Dang! That's just too bad! Maybe in the future...fingers crossed!