New Schiit Vali 2 Discussion Thread

Done some more reading on PCC189. According to various forums, these tubes have variable mu (gain) and are not ideal / recommended for use in amplification?

I've tried three other PCC189's (Dario Minwatt, RTC, Belvue) and they exhibit similar soundstage to the Valvo and the same unrefined sound. They are all less forward than the Valvo. I didn't like the Belvue. The Dario was the best of the bunch and a bit less aggressive than the Valvo. Unfortunately, my particular example has some noise on the one channel.

I've also tried a Valvo E88CC (Heerlen Holland) but don't like it anywhere near as much as the Valvo E288CC. It is too thin & analytical and lacks the cohesiveness of the E288CC.

The E288CC seems to sound even better now. Not sure if it is because of burn in or my perception change or both. But can't go back to PCC189 or PCC88 now!

On the 5670 front, I have GE 5* triple mica. This has a similar sound to the Raytheon except it is less aggressive, a bit less loose, and has variation in soundstage depth (the raytheon is much more universally forward). I would choose the GE over the Raytheon.

@Luckbad posted some very useful 5670 recommendations over on head-fi sometime ago, see post #21:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/5670-w396a-2c51-6n3p-tube-thread.680910/page-2

The 5670 family over an alternative presentation to the ECC88 family, one that I wish to explore further. I will probably try a tung sol or WE 396a next, for a smoother sound.

It maybe awhile before I can write a more formal report because I am very busy studying at the moment.

Here are my recommendations (budget are provisional):

High end: Valvo E288CC (smooth, detailed, 3D)
Budget: GE 5* (less detailed than E288CC, energetic, fun, slightly loose), Valvo PCC189 (forward, unrefined, nice soundstage), Dario Miniwatt (less forward than the Valvo PCC189)

 

Just noticed that Luckbad posted his 5670 thoughts on SBAF as well (see post #39):

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/mhdt-labs-r-2r-nos-tube-dacs.1336/page-2

In case you do not wish to frequent the other site

 

Enjoying the Vali 2 a lot. Still with the stock tube to get used to its base sound.

The sound with the stock tube is really big. More impact, the music sounds busy at the expense of some finer details. Very fun to listen to. I remember Amos/Currawong's review and yes it sounds a bit tipsy. Tipsy is fun...

Changeling passed on several tubes to me.

• 6N3P-DR plus adapter
  
• 6N1P
• E288CC (the Siemens)
• Sylvania 6CG7/6FQ7
• Ultron PCC88 7DJ8

I have no idea yet of their properties. In the coming time I am going to look for the tube that can give me a impact and more accuracy. Thing is, if the stock tube can make Klemperer's rendition of Beethoven's 5th Symphony more epic; it remains a keeper.

Tubes make this hobby much more interesting.

 

I'm really a big 6sn7 fan my self! If you have the space for an adapter on the Vali 2, I've got a few entry level tubes I'd be happy to share with you. I'm curious to hear how the Vali 2 sounds with 6sn7s.

 

Warmed up the Siemens E288CC.

Again I am playing Animals As Leaders' "Cafo" to test the sound. Smoother overall and the splashy cymbals sound more controlled. Bass impact is not as strong as with the stock tube but the overall smoothness is instantly noticeable. I can follow the drummer much better.

With the stock tube you have to watch out with the inherent loudness/dynamic range of your music. This Siemens tube is easier to work with regarding a standard volume and then having extra headroom for those extra decibels (if you really want to enjoy the music a little more).

Just first impressions.

@Mshenay I am first going to tube roll a bit. The stock tube is simply fun. I want to find the perfect tube for Beethoven's 5th and my Prog collection. Once I have that tube I can stop searching. Animals As Leaders make great music for testing audio gear and I want a tube that can really render nuances and transitions well over the entire frequency range without lacking impact.

This Siemens tube is really something special...

 

@Luckbad is 100% the person you'll want to talk to, he seems to really like the smaller 9pin tubes that your experimenting with. When I ran them I liked 6n23p's my self. Voskhod Rockets were some of my favorites for their dynamics and impact, alongside of top end clarity. But I've always liked thinner, brighter, tubes. If your interested in getting your self a 6sn7 Octal to 9pin adapter, I have a entry Level sylvania and Electro harmonix your welcome to have/try

 

Today the Siemens Halske 88CCa arrived. So much music to listen to!

So yeah I am going test the tube. That means more Animals As Leaders, Mozart's Symphony No. 40 and Beethoven's Egmont.

The Siemens E288CC is really good. Such an accurate yet lively sound. Metal sounds amazing and Bach's "Toccata & Fugues" just made me listen. If the Halske tops it I already have my top 2 tubes for the coming years. I have not had this much fun nerding out over small details in years.

People can hype their DACs. To quote Ozzie here "Fairies Wear Boots" and I prefer my tubes. An old 16 bit DAC with a Vali 2 is so rewarding.

 

Happy to see you've also found a love for tube rolling! It's really a blast, and you've only explored 9pins! Just imagine how many more tubes there are to try

 

Testing the Siemens Halske 88CCa. Attached was a note that this was the 1962. Okay this small tube is old.

I let the tube warm up and played some music. Headphone on and Animals As Leaders is playing. This tube is similar to the E288 CC but different in overall tone. The Halske renders Animals As Leaders more accurately than the E288 CC but the music sounds less fun. The Halske sounds like an tool to examine the music while the E288 CC cohesively presents you what makes the music so enjoyable.

With well recorded music the Halske is great. With everything else the E288 CC is more fun.

Update: the complex transitions of Animals As Leaders are so easy to follow, this tube is on another level and I am failing to find the words before superlatives enter my mind. f**k this is beyond good.

 

Thanks for this post. I have a Siemens E288CC. When I noticed Changeling had put this tube in the box and I saw this post I knew I had to try this tube.

This tube is a keeper. It sounds fun without sacrificing that rich midrange.

 

Just to head this off a bit, that post was in the context of the tube buffer in a NOS R-2R DAC. The sonic characteristics between that and being used for proper amplification may not hold.

That said, I actually bought a Vali 2 to use at work and already had an adapter, so I'm messing around a little with tubes. I'll likely just go to the 6N23P-EV and leave it in there. Sounded better than stock to me and doesn't require an adapter.

My initial impression is that a lot of the tube sound imparted on my DAC does translate to the Vali 2, but it's too early to say for sure.

Also, if the Vali 2 isn't arousing enough interest from your wife, you could always try a 6N26P with an adapter.

 

@Luckbad wow that is a huge tube for the Vali 2

 

My Vali 2 has channel imbalance issues.

Sometimes I only get the left signal. Then I put my hand on the amplifier next to the tube and I get stereo again. What I describe is after I have checked all the connections: RCA, headphone (jack & ear cups) etcetera.

Has this happened to others here with the Vali 2?
If so two follow-up questions:

1. Is it an easy fix?
2. Do the bigger Schiit tube amplifier exhibit similar issues or are they more reliable?

After trying to quickly solve this I turned down the volume, disconnected the headphone and the used my CD-player's headphone out. If this issue keeps coming back too often I will look for a solid state solution.

 

It happened with the E288CC and the E88CCa. With the stock tube no issues.

Strange...

 

I've tried more than a dozen tubes with my Vali 2 and never experienced the problem you describe.

The duff tubes that I've had exhibited buzzing on one channel and / or excessive microphonics. I'm using a NOS Valvo E288CC as my preferred tube, and it is completely solid.

Does the right channel drop out completely with your Vali 2 or is it just low? You could try the tubes with an alternative amp, assuming you have access to one.

Probably best to contact Schiit for advice. I'm no expert, but it seems unlikely that both an E288CC and an E88CCa would be dodgy, especially if they are NOS.

 

I am going to figure it out. Most of the times the Vali 2 simply works. Thanks.

 

@Deep Funk - don't shoot the messenger, totally stupid question, but...

Do the tubes have very different amounts of gain, and so do you have to turn it up higher to get the same volume with the stock tube? In other words, are you down near the start of the pot on the other tubes? If so, does flipping to low gain on the back of the amp help?

(Yeah, I know, it's probably not this, but it's sometimes easy to overlook the obvious- I do it all the time.)

The other thing I'd look at, from the description, is to visually inspect the pins of the tube, and the socket, checking for damage caused by re-plugging. Don't spray Deoxit in sockets, it can leave buildups when it gets hot, but you could use a good quality camera blower bulb, too, to check there's no obvious debris in there. (It's fine to clean the tube pins with Deoxit, as long as you are sparing with it)

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs and stating the bloody obvious, of course

 

Tested the Vali 2 on low gain and high gain. Still only left channel audio.
Checked the cable connections (RCA, power supply and headphones). The problem persists.
Changed to the Siemens E288CC tube. The problem persists.

What remains is check the connections again and test one last time. If the problem is not solved by then the Vali 2 has to be inspected. Simple.

In the mean time I am going to consider a solid state replacement. Dual mono at least would be nice. I had a CMoy solid state dual mono amplifier for my previous AKG K500 and it gave the "bass light" K500 some needed impact in the lower registers.

 

One RCA cable plug on my CD-player had a mm of play. Of all things that connection failed. Good thing acquired O.C.D. makes you notice details.