Newb Looking for First Cheap Budget Tube Amp for HD800

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Ishara, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Ishara

    Ishara New

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    So I just had the chance to audition a Valhalla 2 side-by-side with a Magni 2 for the first time. These are the only two amps besides portable stuff made by FiiO that I've actually had the chance to listen to.

    I definitely enjoyed the Val2 more, and I could certainly hear some differences. However, given that the Magni 2 is only $50, and as someone on a relatively tight budget, it didn’t seem to me like anywhere near $250-300 worth increased enjoyment unless that was a trivial amount of cash for me to drop for relatively minor improvements. I’d say if the Magni 2 gets me 98.5% of the possible output of the HD800’s, the Valhalla 2 bumps that up to 99%. EQ’ing narrowed the perceptible differences even further, since I could tell part of the way the Val2 was giving me the perception of a larger soundstage was just because I could comfortably get it to higher volumes.

    However, I could hear an increased echo. There were a couple tracks where the vocals are reverberating, with the reverb being quickly swallowed by the sound of a plucked guitar. I could hear the reverberating echo for about a fourth of a second or so with the Valhalla 2 where it wasn’t perceivable coming out of the Magni 2 at all.

    But this isn’t something I’d ever really notice in the vast majority of listening sessions. And I didn’t notice it everywhere. It really took a nitpicking level of attention that I don’t normally pay when listening to music, even though I do enjoy the increased clarity of the HD800 compared to other stuff I’ve heard by miles. But it has me curious now if I wouldn’t enjoy the sound of a full tube amp with the HD800’s more.

    I’m thinking I should stick with the Magni 2 unless and until I ever really have cash to burn getting that final 2% out of my headphones. So far, my interpretation as someone who’s tried a big chunk of Sennheiser and HiFiMan’s lineup and has ultimately stuck with an HD800 and an LCD2C is that there’s way more enjoyment in a price to performance sense balancing my headphone collection out than there is putting it into amps. Maybe one day I’ll have a mind-blasting experience plugging it into a different amp, but testing out the Val2 after all the praise I heard (it even had 6N6P tubes!) mostly just gave me appreciation for how close to that value the Magni 2 already gets me.

    Now, if I kept the Magni 2, I wouldn’t need to worry too much about accuracy, detail retrieval, and whatever else on the HD800’s in a second amp. I could get a pure tube amp that would just make the sound more euphonic and ‘interesting’ without worrying about any other qualities to the amp. Obviously one of the biggest selling points to listening out of the HD800’s is the massive soundstage, so I wouldn’t want the amp to destroy that quality, but as long as it wasn’t reducing my enjoyment of the soundstage relative to the Magni 2 I’d be quite happy.

    So ultimately what I’m looking for here is just the cheapest 2nd full tube amp that would give me the best price-to-variety value in terms of giving me a variety of ways to listen to my music. I know there are affordable tube amps in the sub-~$300 range. Maybe even something like the Darkvoice 336SE.

    Come to think of it, the Darkvoice might be the most logical choice for me to look for next, as far as I know. Would that be a reasonable assessment? Keep in mind, when listening for sheer enjoyment I love the dark LCD2.2 sound the most (I enjoyed them noticably more than anything from HiFiMan all the way up to the HE-560). Is there anything else in a comparable price range that would distort the sound in a ‘fun’ way and give me as close to the full experience of the tube sound as possible?
     
  2. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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  3. Ishara

    Ishara New

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    Thanks. I’ve already read just about the entire thread, if not the whole thing weeks back.

    The discussions on that thread are looking in a very wide price range and aiming for the best all-around amps for all purposes.

    So very little of the discussion is really relevant to someone who:

    1. reports perceiving relatively minimal differences between the Valhalla 2 and the Magni 2 (In fact, the Valhalla 2
    would be the primary recommendation at my budget according to that thread and that’s why I sought it out to begin with
    ),
    2. has a strong preference for sub-$300 or so, and 3. is aiming with this purchase simply to change the sound for enjoyment,
    with relatively little concern for accuracy or other aspects of the amp besides not destroying the soundstage.​
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  4. Outerspace Wasabi

    Outerspace Wasabi Friend

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  5. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    What you are describing is usually referred to as “mid-fi purgatory”. I don’t think you will find many people here who would advise you to buy multiple amps to provide you with a different flavor. You are always going to be better off buying the best amp you can afford.
     
  6. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Normally, I'd chastise you for starting a new thread when there are already advice threads that you can read through and form an opinion for yourself, but feeling good today. I'd say get a Vali 2 and be done. Cheap, good with both dynamic and planar headphones, plus you can tube roll pretty inexpensively if you want to play with different sounds. Take the saved money and get a good budget DAC like the Modi 2 Multibit or just the Modi 2 Uber if you aren't interested in the multibit stuff. That would make a killer stack for someone looking for value and who doesn't hear/care about some of the more nuanced differences between amps and sources (consider you and your wallet lucky in some ways). I have gone up and down the budget/mid fi scale and find the Vali 2 + Modi 2 Multibit to be the ultimate sweetspot anywhere near the price range.
     
  7. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    ^^^ This and remember you can "flavor" the Vali 2 with tubes. Just don't obsess. Let the people with disposable incomes tube roll. Read up on what tubes do what and maybe own a couple. Kinda goes with what @Stapsy said. If you spend hundreds on tubes, imagine what amp you could have had....
     
  8. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    I also feel it is necessary to point out that a better source/amp will give you more than a final 2% increase with the HD800. I would caution you from drawing broad conclusions based on comparing 2 moderately priced amplifiers.

    I have no problem enjoying the HD800 from my Vali, but to suggest that it is extracting 98% of the HD800’s ability is misleading.
     
  9. Lenroot77

    Lenroot77 Friend

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    Another vote for Vali 2 and Modi Multibit... does an amazing job with the hd800’s at a very affordable cost.
     
  10. lac29

    lac29 Acquaintance

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    You know I am selling a Mjolnir 1 for pretty damn cheap.
     
  11. Ishara

    Ishara New

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    So I just looked at it, and I'm definitely interested. Can I call dibs for first in line while I look into what it would take to get the rest of my setup ready for it (balanced cables for LCD2, how the Modi 2 connects to it, etc.)?
     
  12. lac29

    lac29 Acquaintance

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    Sure, just let me know when you decide. I haven't had any takers yet so I might eventually just go local.
     
  13. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    Just get a Vali 2 for $150 and start saving for a Kenzie or Zana Deux S. I have both a Magni 3 and Vali 2 and prefer the Vali 2 with the HD800S. It is a very good starter amp for the Senns.
     
  14. Mdkaler

    Mdkaler Friend

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    Just like you I am budget constrained too. Let me try to save you some money and give you one true advice: Go out and listen; attend meets and expos.

    Sure the journey of discovery can be exciting. Some may find the monetary cost associated with buying and selling is worth the reward. But, until you have heard what the HD800 can truly do, IMO none of these "good value" and "punch way about its class" makes sense. None of these can do what TOTL amps can do. Figure out the grand scheme of things, and then you can decide which amp is worth what to you.

    If you don't see the value proposition of the Vali2 2 over Magni 2, then go for the one you can live with... until you go TOTL! Hey money is money, nothing wrong with pinching pennies if you don't see the value. Hell, put that $100 difference into crypto, and you can get a TOTL amp soon enough LOL.
     
  15. Outerspace Wasabi

    Outerspace Wasabi Friend

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    I don't think you'll get a dark tonality from a Schitt amp, at least not with the HD800.
     
  16. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    I don’t think you need to plan to upgrade to a TOTL amplifier. It might be something that you build to eventually, but don’t let that detract from the great sound you can get from an HD800 and a vali. Too often people focus on an “end game” instead of just enjoying what they have. Decide on your budget, find an amp that fits it, and enjoy listening to music.

    I generally won’t tell someone to save up and buy something more expensive anymore. With that attitude you are going to fall into the constant ugrade cycle. Once you get that $1000 amp, you will start to plan for a $2000 amp. There are lots of great products available in all price ranges. Don’t worry that there is something better in a higher price bracket because there is ALWAYS something better in a higher price bracket.
     
  17. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    From someone who just received a base Kenzie amp ($1700 shipped) I can tell you it blows the Vali 2 away using HD800S phones. I had Justin make my Kenzie with 32 ohm and 300 ohm taps and the Senns do prefer the 300 ohm headphone connection. I also made some other changes to my system at the same time, like upgraded USB cables and addition of an Eitr so I need a few days for everything to settle then I'll write up a brief review. Justin is a pleasure to work with and he delivered my Kenzie in exactly one month including shipping time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  18. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    Doesn't really seem relevant in this thread.
     
  19. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I wouldn't buy some random shit like the Kenzie until trusted ears have heard it.

    I still love my HD800 and have had it since 2009. In that time I've owned dozens of amps including some of the big boy EC amps. I'd say the ZDTj is now my budget pick for them. I'm using it right now out of the Yggdrasil and it's a great pairing.
     
  20. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    I'd certainly hope that a $1700 amp would blow away a $149 amp... :eek:
     

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