Pro audio power amps

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by thegunner100, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. Rex Aeterna

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    tested the rane crossover and everything works except the channel 2 low input. it produces a very loud uncontrollable buzz/hum and produces zero sound. but, everything else works and used it hooked up to the carver pm-600 in bridged-mono to test the subs, the carver can put out some serious freakin power and works very well i think. i think it's rated for 700w or something for bridged-mono.

    haven't got chance sit down give listening tests yet cause just got done working on stuff and had to deal with a couple people for the house. only tested the rane crossover so far. don't know what can be wrong with it yet but, guess will figure it out later on. it did sound good running the jbl 4645(2245h) sub though.
     

  2. Armaegis

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    You mean the low output? not sure why there would be a hi/low input on a crossover... :confused:
     
  3. Rex Aeterna

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    yea. didn't know i made a mistake above in my typing. it worked great though on subs and when the ch1/left hi/low outputs worked it sounded great too. too bad the ch2 section doesn't work really.
     
  4. Armaegis

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    Worth fixing you think? If you're just using it for sub duty then it shouldn't matter and you can just copy ch1 low to both sides. But if using it to crossover a cab for biamping, that might be problematic.

    Loud hum but zero sound makes me think it's the crossover circuit and not the output buffer.
     
  5. Rex Aeterna

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    yea. it was actually testing for a friend. was gonna keep it myself personally but, kinda seems pointless since i wanted to try bi-amping the model 14's for home and seems you can get a used working one for like 60 bucks and some cheaper online. it is a complete analog active though which is nice i think. guess depends on how much it'll cost to get fixed and problem with it. my friend was actually gonna look at it since i told him bout it cause he was gonna use it.


    decided to play with both amps but only did quick swap using speakOn adapters and a speakON coupler(yup this is how i do it. has no limitations like actual speaker switches)...i find the pm-600 more dry so to say and provides a more in depth and sense of space in between everything. the tfm-24 is very clean sounding and very detailed and kinda has similar tonality somewhat but. the mids when i was listening to a william fitzsimmons track seemed more close. kinda hard to explain but, that's how it seemed. but, will probably might say tfm sounds bit sweeter up top but, have to do bit more listening but, the pm600 sounds clean and not grainy to me.

    will probably play more later maybe but, i really like both and officially became a carver fan..
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  6. Rex Aeterna

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    yea, still feel the same. the vocals are more in depth and dry on the pm600. sounds more natural and straight forward. the tfm-24 sounds more forward and bit sweeter. it is great sounding amp though and love it. i believe the tfm-22/24/25(all the same, just with different meters) were tuned to sound like a pair of high-end conrad johnson 200w tube mono blocks....not sure what they are and never heard of them so cant say. but, the tfm-24 is a very sweet sounding amp and really like it still. the pm 600 is supposed to still be a low feedback amp design as well which is nice. i like how the inputs are step attenuators. the tfm-24 has led meters but, no input gain knobs.

    lucky i got this stuff in trade though and found a nice guy and now good friend to work with cause now there is a few local with carver tfm gear for sale. only a tfm-35 which is a slightly modified tfm-25 and guy asking 1k for the amp and pre it comes with and pm1.5t local wants close to 600 bucks so....i like the carver amps though and probably run the pm600 for mains for while till i get the active working or just go buy the behringer like i planned on doing in first place...probably use the tfm-24 on the horns and pm-600 on bass drivers...
     
    Thad E Ginathom likes this.
  7. Armaegis

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    A 1.5 for $600?? Geez I'd sell you mine shipped for half that.
     
  8. Rex Aeterna

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    that's not bad price. but, yea that one guy is kinda trying to strike gold. i saw other pm series on ebay and some bout hour or so away for lot cheaper.

    i am wondering your experience on the behringer dcx crossover over. how is the peq settings? i know supposedly you can select a frequency and go from there but, does it give full bandwidth selection like from 20hz to 20khz option? i was thinking of it as a 2-way crossover option but, since it's digital is it same like some of the dsp amps where the dac is active all the time? only reason why i'm considering analog active. i was looking either picking up a cheap rane ac22 on ebay for the 39 bucks. it has couple broken knobs but, i have a spare rane ac22 as you know so, getting knobs is no issue or was looking at a behringer cx2310 but, only tiny gripe is the frequency selection is not as wide as the rane i have. i mean i read excellent stuff on it though and guy i know bi-amping acoustats electrostatics with it finds it very enjoyable crossover. i like the frequency selection of the subwoofer too since it goes all the way down to 10hz haha on the low-pass which is awesome. i mean it's cheap enough too with it being 79 bucks brand spanking new and since i shop with american music supply locally i always get extending 1yr local warranty and service.

    i want to use it for my model 14's as of now to try actively running with my new acquired carver amps and down the line when i purchase pair of large altec format drivers or pair of jbl d2 drivers(they're 1.4'' too) will be using it on the big ev hr9040 300hz CD horns(cut off is 300hz so will most likely run it at 350hz or 400hz) on top of jbl 4648 bass bins....you know i already use my echo audiofire 2 as main source of listening and my sony dvp-7000 player and supposedly the ak chip in the dcx is not as nice as the echo from a comment you made before hand has me bit concern is another reason of not getting it. it only seems useful for the peq options to me but, that's bout it..
     
  9. Armaegis

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    My DCX is all stashed away at the moment, but my current settings are with a three way crossover at ~90 and ~500Hz. I don't remember if it goes full 20-20k, but it has a pretty good range.

    I don't think there's a bypass option; I had to make one preset to "flat" in order to act as a pass-through. The built-in dac of the DCX is nothing fantastic. It's a bit compressed sounding when I was trying to use it for my headphone rig, but frankly as a PA rig I couldn't tell.

    And hey, these might interest you... it's not the latest model, but is just about the cheapest I've ever seen a Powersoft amp:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powersoft-D...770757?hash=item1a13b4e085:g:~WUAAOSwcvdXOiXj

    Or stop piddling around with those baby amps and get yourself 15kW(!!!) of power (no that's not a typo):
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crest-Audio...000-watts-2-OHM-Bridged-Sub-Amp-/111964321964
     
  10. Rex Aeterna

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    that is not bad price at all for the crest monsters and is actually a steal compared to the current stuff out. i heard of the 10001's. had even a local selling for bout that same price...they weigh a ton as well. if i had the money i would pick one up in a heart beat. crown made an amp similar, i think was called the macro-tech 10000 or something as well but, not much info and crown made only like a few of them haha. i still think the crest though is still good bit more powerful than the crown was. have to look again on that. the powersofts are not too bad of price and bout dollar something a watt but, i think i go with k series if i wanted to try powersoft out. if the powersofts were bout bit under 400 then i would find it worth buying to play around with for fun.

    alrighty then. i probably just get the cheaper cx model then to play around with if i go behringer route. just need it for simple 2-way play around and if i like it, i probably buy another down the line for my other project when i get the large format drivers. i'll grab eq from a friend since he has tons of them in his basement and use them if i need to. he some good models down there(i think b&k and ac or something. have to look but, they looked really nice)
     
  11. Thenewerguy009

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    Any chance this person will sell some of his stuff?
    Maybe possible to get a general picture of his stuff & make him offers?
     
  12. Rex Aeterna

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    that really depends i guess. i think he wants to keep everything. i don't know though. i did told him when i was over his house he could make a good mount of money on all his stuff he has collected and can put towards other possible projects or purchases but, he just looked at me.. when i see him next time i'll ask. i know he loves tubes and will hold on that stuff forever. i can't tell you how many rca and telefunkel(forgot how to spell) he has around the place. it was very nice seeing all that stuff i think. even the ham radios were cool to see. i know i got him into trading i think though cause he was talking bout trading some stuff some other guy for some altec parts or something. i will talk to him again next time i see him. he actually lives very close to me so, i see him good couple times a week depending how busy he is.
     
  13. Armaegis

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    At 150+ pounds that Crest rivals the monster Krells the Ohhgourami has. My back hurts just thinking about it :rolleyes:

    Yeah the K-series would be nice, but you're paying $2-3k just to play in that sandbox.

    This DCX2496 has been up for a while that looks interesting: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/deta...er-dcx2496-crossover-unit-modified-for-hi-fi/
     
  14. Rex Aeterna

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    was the previous person that modded was competent? just asking cause looks like that one board was just placed there inside the chassis cause the person didn't know where else to mount it... also i would of kept the balanced inputs instead of turning them into rca's....i guess didn't know bout adapters at the time maybe? it'll be interesting to hear it though. but, still i think i'm just gonna get a plain analog one.

    i think 150lbs is not so bad on my part. i actually enjoy a chellenge every now and then. i use to walk up and down flight of stairs at my old place carrying 100-150lb+ monitors and tv's a lot....i actually still do it but, now it's not just monitors but, subs too since i only have so much room, i have to take something out in order to bring the other stuff in my room when i want to put it in rotation. your nervous system adapts after awhile. i don't eat meat and junk so my body and nerves are always clean and good shape.
     
  15. Armaegis

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    I'm a reasonably strong guy, but I'm short and 150lbs weighs almost more than I do so it's more of a cumbersome factor. My Yorkvile U15's are 80-ish lbs but they're so large relative to me I can barely manage a shuffle while carrying those things.

    I have no idea about the provenance of that DCX. It does look rather crowded in there. I'm guessing the new output card is only single ended, and it looks like there's no analog input at all. Maybe removed to make room for all the other stuff.
     
  16. Rex Aeterna

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    i found a local like in town right next to me(it's like 10 minute walk) selling some pa stuff. has a crown microtech 1000 for 100 bucks...not bad price at all and gonna hit him up in a bit. would love to have a little microtech amp in my stable....well not exactly too small since i think weighs like close to 50lbs and has dual 900va power transformers in the chassis. rated 1000w into 1ohm load and is 1ohm stable. i know i just got couple carvers but, i do love crowns haha and at that price i can't beat that.

    only issue of course macros/micros are known to be power sucking monsters and are very inefficient.. gonna need 1000w wall power draw for i think 250-300w rms into 8ohm load so, yea to get them anywhere near full power you'll need as minimum of 20a circuits...i think cause the ridiculous power transformers crown always used...they always had huge over-built transformers in their gear so, of course power draw and dissipation is gonna be insane for most old school iron core crowns.

    he also has pair of amazing JBL SR4726A which used the better jbl 2226 15'' bass driver and 2447 compression drivers.....but, asking 250 a piece...i want them but, i wouldn't pay 250 a piece....jbl 2226's are bout 100 bucks a piece and compression drivers bout same so i probably make an offer on pair and would only use it for parts cause i need extra 2226 woofers...
     
  17. Armaegis

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    Man $100 sounds pretty dang good.

    Have you ever had issues with power sag from your amps causing your other gear to malfunction? I'm curious, do you use any form of power conditioning?
     
  18. Rex Aeterna

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    few times....in a single home a 20a circuit can do only so much. my one crown xti 4002 i use, even though crown claims it only uses bout 16a near full load conditions makes no sense cause 2400w@8ohms=120Vx20a but, i think i was told that crown and qsc rates their stuff at like 1/8 duty cycle and 1/2 duty cycle on power consumption and btu dissipation cause under most pa events amp is supposedly only producing half of full power output or some crap in most cases with most people....

    but, anyhoo, having 3kw worth of bass bins and sub under a full load when a deep like 15hz impact from track i always test for extension and deep slam, once that slam hits it shuts off my other gear for good few seconds before coming back on but, only the crown xti 4002 stays on of course....had only happen couple time...i would upgrade the circuit in my main room but, i don't plan on living here for that much longer and how i feel, i don't want to put effort and work into something that is not worth it, even though upgrading a circuit box is very simple job and i don't like feel like rewiring anything either. i have one part of the house for 30a circuit but, i don't feel like dragging an extension cable all way downstairs....

    i think it's great deal too. actually gonna email guy right now since he does not have a phone number present for the ad. when i meet him, i probably ask to take a listen to the jbls too.. i can see those jbls working very well for hi-fi besides pa use. even the other older ones were basically jbl studio monitors in more basic rugged pa cab that used the well known baby cheek horns and early don keele CD horns.... they're crossover networks too for pa stuff was pretty impressive work as well back then since it was just for more than just for sound reinforcement...

    i never used a power conditioner. they cost so much to the point i find it not really worth it for my situation and me being old fashion and always believing direct wall plug in is way to go. maybe if i ever got into pa work it might help protecting things like the mixer,processors,ect. but, think i probably still find way for wall plugging and probably always ask to take a look at their circuit box and see what's running what and so forth.
     
  19. Rex Aeterna

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    well, emailed and talk to guy. gonna meet next Wednesday bout the crown micro-tech 1000. said no one showed any interest whatsoever the months he had it up so he's giving me first dibs on it and wants me to call before picking it up. don't know why no one showed interest. the microtechs are basically macro-techs but, instead have the input attenuators in the back and i believe micro-techs uses 1/4'' inputs while macros uses xlr is only difference... both are grounded and bridged internally with a transformer i believe(found out the micro's and macros uses three main power transformers[dual-mono config and one more transformer for both the other transformers for like a grounded bridge topology thingy..sounds complicating] and has a pair of smaller ones around the fan area on the bottom for the low rail voltage section).

    i played with the rane crossover too again other day and to surprise it worked perfectly....i went down stairs after like hour of testing to get something to drink, come back up, and go plug it back up, it decided to mess up again on the ch2 low output,and not just that, on high output and even on ch1 too which before showed perfect operation..looked inside and don't see any trace burn marks, cold solder joints and so forth but, did notice plugging and unplugging the 1/4'' jacks the input jacks and couple output jacks seem bit wiggily... thing is there is protective plastic case on the input jacks.. don't want to break it even more haha....i wonder if it's probably couple of the opamps in the the box maybe too cause did read online the ones in the rane can go a bit wonky after a while.... probably just gonna give it back to my friend and see if he wants to bother with it. i don't have the proper tools and need better solder iron to do anything here quite yet.


    EDIT: well can figure why no one wanted the crown micro-tech. it utilizes a 20a plug. not big deal for me since my room actually uses 20a plugs and has 20a circuits but, still can tell this thing is not very efficient if it rates at 1100w wall power draw at 250wpc@8ohm output... i do have a furman 20a to 15a adapter cable too sitting around too but, never really needed or used it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  20. Rex Aeterna

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    well, brought home the crown. works great and sounds great when i tested it. have it open now and seem it was upgraded at one point to the 1200 spec. it has all brand new recent t-03 transistors and has 12 on each channel(the original 1000 is only supposed to have 10 on each channel) and to top it off, they're all matching too since every single one is numbered to match. seems whoever worked on it too replaced the power cord with a standard 15a cable. the original micro-techs are supposed to be equipped with a 20a plug but, it doesn't matter since the only difference between 15a and 20a is the one prong is inverted and the other isn't.......but, it's cool since i can plug it anywhere but, still if i expect full power from it i'm gonna need it on a dedicated 20a line.

    seems to be in good condition with little marks here and there. only problem is when i get the the guys house he shows me that the plastic piece that covers the filter is duck tapped on lol... i took it off and not big deal since it had clips to place the plastic cover back on lol... just had to trim the filter a bit... it does need a good bit cleaning though. said he was a musician on the road and used it since the 90's when he bought it used and worked great. only problem he had was lot of places didn't have good enough mains for it at the time and was an issue sometimes.

    but, anyhoo, it works great and sounds great. just need to clean it up a bit and it'll be good to go. might post pics later maybe. it was pain to take cover off. probably compare the insides of it to the carver pm600 i have haha.... the only thing that looks original though is the huge grey filter caps but, one day i'll replace those bad boys with something better...
     

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