Returns Discussion

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Skyline, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. %20 Oddity

    %20 Oddity Friend

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    ...for what it's worth, EU directive 2011/83/EU states member countries have a mandated 14 days period of accepted returns no questions asked when you're buying online/thru mail order/on phone.

    I did it maybe once, because I don't usually bother (also you need to have the payment fluidity first lol), but the 'loophole' is right there for ppl to abuse. Mostly it makes my life easier when something I bought is actually broken, because in the store people are just really eager to tell you you're using it wrong or something.

    Restocking fees are outrageous from my pampered ass's point of view, thanks to that.
     
  2. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    I think we're ALL opposed to this.

    If that's how my argument came across, then I worded it poorly.
     
  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    It actually may not be that bad. I just read Schiit's return policy:
    1. 5% to 15% restocking fee.
    2. Items must be in it's original box, with all accessories, and like new condition.
    3. 3 orders per year limit return policy.
    The Restocking fee sounds like a decent deterrent for bullshit.

    I mean 5% of a Yggdrasil is like $115 + shipping fees, and 15% of a Modi is like $15 + shipping fees. Sounds like a decent 15-day rent policy. They may go back to the main inventory pool if they pass QA and are not B-stock material.
     
  4. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    AND the reason they jack up Amazon prices, so as to discourage returns that they can't inspect.
     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I think it's a bit more involved there. Amazon expects to make a buck from the sale.

    EDIT: I've sold my shit through Amazon. That's how I sold my Audeos and DT990. Again, they expect to make a buck from your listing. You take the hit.
     
  6. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Also to help counter the people who claim the product was defective in order to have Amazon pay for free pickup and shipping back. Which is most of the Amazon returns (the products are almost never defective, but they have to come back to us for re-inspection. We don't allow Amazon to sell anything once the seal is broken, we've had instances of Valhalla 2s being dropped into boxes with a couple of balloon packs from Amazon and sold as new.)

    Don't get me started on Amazon...
     
  7. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I did not know Ken Rockwell was such an asswipe.
     
  8. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Okay, I'll just go ahead and say it, because manufacturers looking to sell on Amazon should know what they're getting into.

    Here's the bottom line: between the fees, shipping to Amazon, and increased returns (and their attendant handling), figure on taking a 30% scalping. Better than a dealer, yes, but not anywhere near insignificant.
     
  9. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    He's not very well liked in the photography community. I had a little email exchange with him that I won't reprint, but nonetheless doesn't give me a positive view either.

    The best thing I can say about him is that his amp reviews do have measurements, although his plots look like they were done in DOS.
     
  10. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    The only thing I buy that I fear I'll ever have to return is vinyl from Amazon. Sometimes you can score a nice record for a decent price on Amazon, but more than half the time I receive a warped disaster.

    On the trying out gear I may be on the fence about front, I'll text friends and ask to borrow or I'll post a "want to borrow" add in the FS forum here.
     
  11. winders

    winders boomer

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    He is! I know him from the photog world and he is genuinely despised by people that know their shit. To be honest, I can't believe SBAF links to his site. Total douche bag....
     
  12. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    I've been into photography for a couple of decades, and had been wondering why there's a link to his site on SBAF. It would help if the guy could take good photos, but he showcases oversaturated snapshots. There are entire threads dedicated to him on photography forums, quite similar to the one on SBAF that talks about that popular Youtube audio reviewer/blogger with the shaky handheld video camera (can't remember the name, starts with T or M?).

    I was wondering whether Rockwell is better from an audio perspective, but having been exposed to his folksy-but-inconsistent photography opinions, wasn't willing to revisit that side of his site.

    Keeping vaguely on topic, on a thread that spawned of another: I can only recall returning a non-broken product that I bought once* in my life (outdoor gear that was advertised as waterproof, but wasn't even vaguely water resistant). My wife and her family are American, and they buy and return things non-stop. I am more attuned to Australian/Brit cultures, and it seems that there's more of an attitude of "be responsible for your own decisions" behind purchases.

    * Thinking about it now, I also 'returned' or rather refused delivery of, tailored clothing 5 and 10 years ago because the suits turned out terrible, but these were manufacturing defects rather than me being whimsical.

    That said, I fully intend to buy a couple of modest Schiit products early next year, listen to them side by side, and keep only one. But I don't think that really counts as a typical 'return' as they have clearly laid out charges and time limits on this, so it seems more like an audition fee. And from the way it's described on their site, I get the impression that this is viewed as an ethically acceptable thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  13. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    I always just assumed that maybe he was personal friends with Marv or something so I never mentioned it.
     
  14. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    I'm the same way. I work retail and we explain our return policy VERY clearly an we don't make exceptions to our restock fee's very often. I also make commission, so when you return a product I lose what ever money I gained by selling it to you. But it's good business for us to allow you the chance to return products you don't like. Especially when your paying a restocking fee for doing so AND I'm losing money for selling you a product you clearly didn't want. Ultimately, we want customers to buy what they want, if your un sure then I have no reason to sell to you. If your return in 7 days, I just wasted BOTH my time/money and yours.

    As far as using return policies for content... In my darkest times I contemplated abusing them... in the end I didn't.

    Because I felt doing so would invalidate my thoughts on what ever it is I got, even if I'm going to pay the re-stock fee and shoulder the cost of what ever I'm returning... it's just a shitty thing to do. And not taking what I view'd as the "easy" path pushed me to create better content and work harder to get loaners. 99/100 products sent to me I return, I've gotten 2 hand outs in my 5 years of doing this.... and half the time I'm paying shipping both ways. An as far as time goes? I spend about 24 hours a week creating content for my blog and various postings and I make NO money from it... in fact I probably lose quite a bit of money. But it's fun and I enjoy it so onward I go.

    Though what's really interesting is some vendors who have denied sending me a demo/loaner HAVE encouraged me to purchase a product and return it, some even offered to waive the re-stock fee IF after the review I didn't want to keep it... so the manufacturers are aware of all of this, @schiit good to hear some real world numbers on what doing business through Amazon is like, especially with regards to their return policy
     
  15. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    I've never in my life bought something with the intention of just using it and then returning it. just wouldn't feel right to me.
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Not much to add, except that the sane discussion of different points of view is both refreshing and instructive.

    I appreciate that Amazon (.in) sometimes allows returns just because the customer bought the wrong thing. It's our mistake, and they give us a second chance. One item was like the advert said cat, and I read dog. The seller said, where, in our advert was the word dog even mentioned. I said it wasn't, I'm stupid. They accepted the return and I was grateful. If they hadn't: well, I had been stupid. It was not very expensive, a phone case.

    The set of "hardened-steel" cold chisels that were probably barely steel let alone hardened got filed-for-refund in ten minutes. The deficiency in the product was glaring. What's nice about Amazon is not having to argue that point, especially in a country where retail service goes, "This shirt is dirty." "Wash it."

    Generally, though, I'm towards the side of taking the hits for my mistakes. But I do see points of view here about the impossibility of audition. There's another aspect of that, which is forums. A year or three ago I had a lot of help from the internet (Changstar and even HF) on... buying a HD600 or a HD650. When I took the advice and the plunge, I bought from Amaon.com and a friend brought them from USA for me. If I could have just gone to a nearby shop and listened...
     
  17. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Ken Rockwell has managed to market himself and earn a pretty darn good living from postings the manufacture's specs and compiling "reviews." As someone who struggles to market anything, I have to admire him for that. I have no idea who the hell donates to this idiot, let alone on a subscription basis. His plug of at the bottom of every single website of 'please support my family' is pretty laughable.

    From a technical standpoint and from an artist's point of view, I have nothing good to say so I'll just keep my mouth shut.
     
  18. scapeinator1

    scapeinator1 Once You Go Black You'll Never Go Back

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    The other day I had to return a B&O H6 that I bought off of amazon. I auditioned it at a store in NYC when I was there on vacation and I liked the sound and the fit. However, when I finally got it and tried to use it for several hours I realized that it was hurting the top bit of my ears and that was only noticeable after extended usage. In that scenario i think it would be okay to return something given that you did your due diligence ahead of time and only realized a problem afterwards.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    It's not the return that bothers me so much as using the store facilities and then buying off Amazon. I don't know your financial circumstances, and I am not saying that I would never at least look at stuff in a shop and then buy online. But, if you can afford the difference, and you want the store to go on existing, I'd say... Please, if you can, if you use the store, buy from the store.
     

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