Schiit Amp Compendium - Guide to Schiit Amps (headamps)

This is the one I have. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...hIy2zwU0TvIFrpE0PUftMSLzAu5d4viDAeBoCk8Dw_wcB

It has 8 plugs on the back and 1 on the front.

 

Why not a Topaz isolation transformer? You can pick those up relatively cheaply and they work well.

 

This is also a good idea. But in my case I got the Furman for like half price because it was a demo unit in a retail store. And also, rack mount equipment is nerd chic.

 

Can you please explain this or point me to a resource to learn about this. How are the needs of a speaker system different from the needs of a headphone system with regards to the DAC?

 

Here's two pictures. See if you can spot the difference.




Ok, so that was an easy one. The amp in the middle is a Valhalla 2 in the first picture and and a Lyr 2 with LISST in the second picture. So why does that matter? Because I now own three "mid" Schiit amps and I don't really need all three. My original amp, the Lyr 2, has served me very well with both tubes and the solid state LISST. (My first night with the TH-X00's, Lyr 2 with 75 Reflektor tubes and Modi Multibit is still one of my favorite nights ever in personal audio) I picked it up cheaply with the intention of replacing it down the road with something a little bit sexier (and blacker, with a balanced input) but I have really grown to like it for its power and versatility.

Backing up, let me say that of these three amps I actually prefer the Valhalla 2. It's a keeper and that's why it isn't in the second picture. It has survived elimination and will be staying. These other two amps though, man are they closer in sound and character than I would have thought possible. With LISST installed the Lyr 2 is right on the heels of the Jotunheim in terms of clarity and is still a little bit ahead in slam and impact.

I've done more back and forth A/B'ing tonight between the two amps than I care to remember and while their are differences they are very, very small. I've listened mainly with my modded Hifiman HE-400S but also a little bit with the Fischer Audio fa-011. I've compared the single ended outputs using the fa-011 but more often have compared the balanced out on the Jot with the SE out on the Lyr 2 using the same cable but with an adapter. And despite what you might think the differences between them going from balanced to single ended are also very small. Even the volume pot hangs out in roughly the same place on a per song basis when trying to volume match making that aspect very easy.

The easy tell is that vocals will always be a tiny bit more forward and up front on the Jot. On the Lyr 2 they take a step back. The Jot's advantage in clarity is really only apparent with very quick back and forth comparisons and once you've listened to one amp or the other for 10 or 15 seconds you forget all about it. And it's the same with the bass impact and slam advantage of the Lyr 2. Blink or get distracted for a moment and you will forget all about it. Tonally these two are dead even. And that's why I'm having a difficult time with this.

If I was only going to keep one amp it would actually be the Lyr 2. It's ability to roll tubes or LISST means that I have been able to synergize it nicely with half a dozen different headphones over the last few months. It drives everything and it is a truly flexible amp. (And if there are folks out there who are a little bit afraid of the "upfront" nature of the Jot but still need the power then I would very easily recommend the Lyr 2 with LISST to those folks even with the cost premium. Schiit needs more credit for how good the Lyr 2 and it's big brother the Mjolnir really are in terms of flexibility)

But I really, really like the Valhalla 2 and it is less flexible in terms of synergy with it's higher impedance output which means keeping one of the other two for low impedance cans. And I think this decision is going to come down to the fact that the Jot is black and the Lyr 2 isn't. How's that for splitting hairs?

 

The Lyr 2 both impresses me at times, and better yet, I entirely forget about it times. The later being the higher praise because it's when I forget about the gear and just enjoy the music = the best experience for me. Very happy with it, recommend it, and have sent one to my Dad as a gift to enjoy.

For whatever it's worth I haven't done much tube rolling, but having the options is fun. Trying out a pair of new tubes in mine as I type this that so far sound almost solid state (Telefunken Black Diamond E88CC / 6922 - Really just made by JJ)

 

I think of speed and articulation as properties that allow for equipment to convey the sorts of fine detail that contribute to timbre, nuance, and "air". I think of microdynamics as more of an ability to do local transients like the buzzing of guitar distortion, as well as the ability to coherently convey sounds that have simultaneous loud and soft components, like brass instruments. Am I using these terms inappropriately?

I had no idea that high gain mode was regarded as the preferred way to listen to the Jot. I've been giving it a bit more of a chance, and I can see what you mean. The aspects I initially didn't like about it are pretty minor compared to the way that it improves the sound. As for the noise floor, I wasn't referring to self-noise/background hiss; as far as I can tell, the Jot is basically dead silent in that regard. When I initially tried out high gain, I noticed a slight "greying" of the background compared to low gain. On further listening, it's a pretty minor complaint vs. the benefits of high gain.

I'll have to look into this. Are those tube recommendations NOS, or current manufacture? I'm slowly losing the taste for hunting down (and paying for) the most coveted of NOS tubes, but it seems like something you just have to accept when considering ownership of tubed gear.

I haven't heard the Element, but your description of its sound is a pretty apt description for the (completely unlistenable, imo) high-gain mode of the EL. The DAC portion of the stack seems to be susceptible to USB noise in a way that produces harsh, opaque transients and sibilance if you don't decrappify the input (or just use another input method), and this seems somehow "contagious" to the amp, where it takes on a hardness that seems to increase nonlinearly with gain. Once decrappified, I find the stack mostly listenable, though there's still a small degree of glare and I'm not entirely sure how much I enjoy the sound of the AKM4490.

Haha. This is actually a pretty good description of the "sound" of the Jot to me, like somebody is pouring sand through the upper registers. I do notice it less and less as time goes on though.

 

I think everyone uses terms slightly differently, but take a look at these threads:
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ology-subjective-terms-used-on-superbaf.3400/
http://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/the-audio-101-thread.3214/

NOS, but proportionate NOS. The Valhalla 2 isn't particularly responsive to tube rolling so spending 100's of dollars on tubes for it is a waste. Those recommendations should be about 50 bucks a pair.

Eg:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/262929656902
http://m.ebay.com/itm/252857804720

 

I found out the hard way when it comes to tube rolling with the Valhalla 2. I stick with the stock tubes most of the time.

 

The current headphone amp in my home office is the Jot, with MrSpeakers Ether C Flows. I like it, better than I did the A2 or the Liquid Carbon that I've also owned. My main Jot complaint is its lack of soundstage depth, but I'm not sure there is anything way better than that with those headphones (which I otherwise like too much to replace). I listen to a lot of modern jazz and modern classical, with some Baroque, medieval, West Africa, and around the Mediterranean, US folk, thrown in. I like the speed, clear transients, tight bass, and accurate mid-highs in the Jot, which agree with how I like my live music. I'm planning to take the Jot with a Bifrost Multibit to my work office when the MrSpeakers Aeon headphones I ordered for that purpose arrive. DACs at home are a Yggdrasil for my 2-channel system, and a Holo Spring KTE 3 currently burning in and that I've started to be really impressed via the Jot.

So, I'm looking for a second headphone amp to replace gone-to-work Jot. Price is not a big issue (giving myself a gift for a biggish birthday) but I don't care for designer enclosures or magic beans. I don't have that many opportunities to listen to alternatives, especially not for gear that is not sold through dealers. So, I need to rely on reviews, discussions, some basic understanding of electronics, and the willingness to take losses when gear doesn't quite match my tastes (as happened with the LC). I've always been a solid-state guy, and you could not pay me to get into tube rolling, but I'd not be totally opposed to some tubes if they sound fairly neutral and I don't have to ride a dromedary to Central Asia to get replacements when they inevitably wear out.

What I'm considering

1) just get another Jot and rest
2) Jot with a Freya preamp (Saga is not balanced but my new DAC is)
3) Mojo2 if I can get better soundstage depth without getting too warm or euphonic (remember, I like that sharp-as-a-knife Jot otherwise, crazy as that may sound)
4) Rag
5) HP-1
6) GS-X MkII

Open to other options, of course (that's why I'm asking). At this point, 4) and 5) are slightly ahead of the others, especially since I might be able to demo 4) soon, but 3) is starting to intrigue me, if only I could figure out which tubes are closest to the clean, fast experience from the Jot and yet make it more spacious.

If this sounds too incoherent, please ignore.

 

@earnmyturns

Bifrost Multibit - Saga - Jot got a lot of attention over at the 'special synergy's thread, I'd recommend that as a starting point.

The balanced input into the Jot is apparently more of a handy side benefit than a game changer. I'm reasonably sure that, holding all else equal, the balanced out to the headphones is more impactful than a balanced DAC into the Jot, unless your source is 8 meters away.

Barring the situations where a DAC sounds different between its balanced and SE output, because then that's more of a DAC problem than the Jot.

 

Thanks, I had seen that, but the Bifrost Multibit is also going to work, and it feels a bit weird to take either of my other, balanced DACs (Yggdrasil or Holo Spring) and use them unbalanced, to a new unbalanced preamp that I'd otherwise not have a use for.

 

The relatively easy test would be to try the freya with the jot you have already and go from there, and/or try the phase inversion trick that Garns and Torq have been posting about recently.

The alternative is to listen to a Rag, HP1 and GSX and others in the Bay Area, or come to the LA meet nothing like hearing them to help you decide, and any perceived rush in audio will lead to semi costly gear flips.

If we're throwing names in the ring I'd consider looking at the DSHA solid state amps by doug of ecp which also happen to be balanced.

 

I hope I may be able to hear the HP-1 soon, and maybe someone here with the Rag or GSX in the Bay Area might pipe up Coming down to LA is unfortunately not likely given my somewhat crazy schedule the next few months.

Lots to investigate, thanks. In the meanwhile, listening to Mozart's piano concerto #6 played by Géza Anda and Salzburg's Camerata Academica (DGG, digital PCM 96/24) with microRendu>USB>SU-1>I2S>KTE 3>XLR>Jot>balanced>Ether C Flow is satisfying in every respect except soundstage depth (for which I may have too much expectation because I listen so much to the speaker system downstairs).

 

I have a Yggdrasil Rag stack pumping blood into a Utopia and for speaker duties. I listen mostly to all classical eras nowadays and that includes the 2nd Viennese non-tonal music and contemporary avantguarde.

I heard a Jot briefly at a show but lived with Ragnarok for 2 years now. They do sound similar but Rag is better in staging, being wider, taller and deeper. I found the Jot to be more in your face. The Jot was powered by a Modi Multibit though, so the Yggdrasil factor confounds things. Anyway, don't expect a very deep stage it is still solid state.

The Rag excels in being relatively neutral, a chameloen of sorts, and bringing out bags of microdetail and microdynamics. Transients are sharp, percussion slams hard and timbre is just right. The Rag's best feature is how it drives moderate efficiency speakers. I absolutely love it as a speaker amp!

 

You should add the Cayin iHA-6 to your list of amps to consider. I was able to hear it with the Utopia, HD800 and Eikons and it was impressive but clearly being held back by the mediocre iDAC-6 it was paired with. The sound was clean if not a little excitable, I think you can get them for less than MSRP by asking around dealers. A step up from the Jot for sure, try to find other impressions as I can't say too much from my demo.

Out of the options you listed, the Rag will be most similar to the Jot while improving in the area of staging. There was a great comparison review between the Rag and GS-X MkII by @Maxvla on HF with a paragraph dedicated to staging: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/top-shelf-solid-state-with-hd800s.740568/

Lastly, I haven't really heard any planar that can properly resolve depth including the original Ether C, LCD-2 or lower tier Hifimans. The HEK and HE-6 are better but have appear to have a fixed stage depth-wise that they imprint over every recording. Just something to consider in your search, but I agree with your complaint of the Jotunheim.

 

Thank you for the suggestions and that link, very useful. I appreciate that I'm sacrificing depth with the C Flows, but I like many things in their sound signature, and if I'm yearning for better soundstage, I just take a break from the home office and wall downstairs to listen to my speaker system. As my new Spring DAC has burned in, I'm really impressed with what the Jot is able to reveal from its output, especially dynamics and micro detail in solo or small ensemble jazz, as good as what I hear from my speaker system. Since that mostly matches what I use headphones for, I'm wondering if my earlier query might have been the start of a wild goose chase But I'm looking for a second headphone amp anyway, so at this point I'm leaning to just get a Rag next month if I don't succeed in hearing promising alternatives. Much that I like a neutral sound, from the review you linked and a few other impressions here and elsewhere, it feels like the MkII is way too far along that dimension to consider without careful listening.

 

I'm just reporting on my new Schiit amp set up: Lyr 2 stock tubes, Modi Multibit, and HD650. Previously used LDMK3 and DX90/Scarlett 2i2 as my amp/source.

The upgrade is quite substantial. I'm hearing new details and subtleties in many of my favorite test tracks. For example, in Ornette Coleman's "Lonely Woman," I'm able to perceive the subtlest differences throughout the interplay of the Coleman-Cherry melody. Nothing sounds muddy, imbalanced, or out of place. I fully endorse this setup and the synergy it produces.

 

I'm not sure Lyr 2 is best suited for the HD650. This amp was designed for heavy loads like planars, which entails trade-offs that don't play to the strengths of a relatively easy to drive dynamic like the HD650. I believe something like Valhalla 2 or Jotunheim to be a better similarly priced choice for these headphones.

See this or this.

 

@sophilo I'll second what @landroni said with the caveat that the Lyr 2 still sounds good and is a solid all-in-one amp if you have other headphones. I've had the Lyr 2, Valhalla 2, and Jot at the same time and the Lyr got the least listening time but not because it's not good, simply because the Jot has more attack for when I'm in that sort of mood and the Valhalla 2 is even more relaxing and spatial when I'm in that sort of mood whereas the Lyr is more of a jack of all trades master of none (hence its flexibility for using with multiple phones such as both dynamics and planars).

If you don't have any other headphones, and don't plan to, you could think about changing amps in the future. But you can get closer to the Jot sound with LISST tubes and you can get a more warm sound with old stock tubes like orange globes and mitigate some of the darkness of the 650 by KISS modding it. That's a good combo to my ears... you get more clarity and less mid bass hump by modding the 650 and then warmer tubes bring the modded 650 closer to the sound you have now but with more clarity. (This will have more slam / impact than the Valhalla 2; it's not like the Lyr is weaker in all respects. It's more that members here are very aware of chain synergy. Refer to the chart in opening post.) All that said, if you're already happy, that's all that matters.