Schiit Amp Compendium - Guide to Schiit Amps (headamps)

I have the Jot/Bifrost Multibit at the office as well except with the TH600. Please let us know what you think of the synergy with the Aeon when you get it!

 

How is the TH600 with the Jot?

I am thoroughly intrigued by the Jot and keep contemplating it's potential synergy, or lack of, with my TH900s.

Cheers.

 

I expect to have some impressions ready sometime in June. I used Bifrost Multibit>Lob>Ether C Flows extensively since last summer, in my home office. Currently I'm listening to the same amp and headphones but with a now-mostly-burned-in Holo Spring KTE 3 DAC. One thing I did not quite expect is that both amp and 'phones had quite a bit of headroom. Good as the Bifrost Multibit is (especially for the price), the new DAC digs deeper in dynamics and detail, giving a more complete, more "solid" portrayal of instruments, which both amp and 'phones are happy to deliver. Which surprises me also because I did not know quite what to expect from a NOS R2R DAC (as opposed to Schiit burrito-filter-upsampled R2R). When I go to Bifrost Multibit>Jot with the Aeon at work, I don't think that these recent experiences will spoil it, in part because music at work is more to keep me focused "in the zone" and I select albums accordingly, rather than for listening more attentively as I do at home.

 

Overall I think it's a good match if soundstage and forwardness isn't important to you. I use EQ to bring up the mids a bit as I just find it too far back. The TH600 encompass everything I can imagine with "easy listening" as that is their sonic character but also physical comfort level. I do think these headphones could use more slam as I've quickly compared to a closed HD589 and the difference is obvious. The TH600 reaches down but you feel it like I was hoping. I suspect this is largely from the tighter clamping but if that is the trade-off, a lack of of headache is fine by me. Micro and macro details are articulated pretty well and any kind of treble glare that the HD800 has mated with the Jot are completely absent with the TH600.

@earnmyturns you also have a Yggdrasil, correct (feeding a H360 if memory serves?)? I'd be interested in how that compares!

 

I've only been listening to the Spring with headphones and headphone amps, I've not had time to do a side-by-side comparison with the Yggdrasil on my H360 speaker system. Subjectively, the Spring seems a bit more "primary colors" than the Yggdrasil, which has subtler shades. But it's mainly a question of (subtle) taste, not a big difference.

But back to the main theme of this thread, Schiit headamps. Thanks to @strangecargo, I've been comparing the Jot side by side with the Neurochrome HP-1. Setup: microRendu+LPS-1>SU-1>AES>Holo Spring KTE 3>XLR>amp>balanced DUM>Ether C Flow. For these brief impressions, I'll refer to two well recorded tracks that I'm pretty familiar with:

1. "Infernal Danse of all Kaschel's Subjects," Stravinsky's "Firebird,", Antal Dorati and LSO, Mercury Living Presence, remastered for SACD
2. "Watercolors" by Kevin Eubanks, "East West Time Line"

My wife, who has a much better ear than me, listened to #1 without knowing which amp (she'd not care anyway). Her reaction, without prompting, was that the HP-1 had better transients, better layering/instrument separation, it felt more than she was in the concert hall, but she found the Jot more relaxed, she'd have preferred if it was for her to listen to all the time (never heard anyone call the Jot relaxed, but I guess everything is relative...). My impressions agree with hers. I also just listened to #2, and there too I found slightly better separation, faster transients (and the Jot is already fast), closer to being there. These are not big differences, and of course with closed planar headphones, soundstage is flat-ish, but even there, I feel the HP-1 has a slight edge. I was surprised that our impressions were so consistent, given that the differences are not huge. In our favor, track #1 has a great mix of instruments, loudness, and rhythms, and the recording, originally analog, it's of the best I've heard. That's why I chose it as a test track. #2 is also well recorded, although for a very different genre.

Those are similar impressions as I had on various jazz and baroque violin tracks that I listened to yesterday, although I also felt then that the HP-1 was slightly darker, which might be just an issue with the two amps not being nice and warm together. Today, with both at operating temperature for several hours, that perception evaporated.

I'm convinced that the HP-1 is a worthy contender to take the place of my Jot when the Jot travels to my work location. Now I need to listen to a Rag...

 

Hello guys!

I got an offer on a Mjolnir 2.
Not sure if I should go for the used Mjolnir 2 or a new Jotunheim...
Suggestions? The speed and clarity of the jotunheim is very appealing to me (atleast from the looks of it on the comparison). But so is the slam (I love electronic music).
Headphones? HD600 & HD650, and some planar soon.

 

I asked this question in the Jotunheim thread, and Marvey recommended a Sagaheim over the Mjolnir. So I'd do a bit of research into the Saga+Jotunheim market, depending on what you can get the Mjolnir for. If it's anything under $500-ish, I think the Mjolnir would be a fantastic deal at that point either way.

Edit: Also keep in mind whether you're using Balanced cables or not, as that has a surprisingly large effect on how the two amps are rated. Going off the ratings in this thread, the Mjolnir takes a pretty big hit if you're just going SE.

 

@Prydz: Both Mjolnir 2 and Jotunheim sounded great with electronic music for me. Mjolnir 2 is definitely bassier and has more slam, and for me in the end a bit too much slam. Sometimes I just wanted it to calm the hell down a bit, it's pretty relentless. LISST with the Mjo 2 for speed and best quality bass, but thin soundstage and slightly hazy mids. Tubes for better soundstage but a bit more rounded in the bass. Maybe some German tubes would get you best of both worlds. With HD650 the combination of the amp and the headphone seemed to give quite a strong emphasis in the mid bass with bleed into lower mids which could be good or bad depending on taste.

Jotunheim has the extra speed and clarity which is great for those ultra fast electronic transients, and the low end is a bit more balanced FR-wise and seems to extend a bit deeper. I thought Jotunheim + HD650 made 909 kicks sound real close to what they would on a big soundsystem, mainly because it gets the attack right. It is a bit more damped and poised, lighter on its feet if you will, whereas to me the Mjo felt a bit meat-heady. The forward mids is probably not a big deal for electronic music but the soundstage is still terrible. The phase reversal trick helped here.

In the end it's impossible to call for anyone else because both solutions are excellent, just slightly different flavours. But these are my experiences.

 

I struggled with similar ideas and owned both Sagaheim and Valhalla 2, but with the HD650 ended up preferring the Valhalla 2. My electronic music leanings are not as bass heavy so I was ok with it. I decided to add money and go for the big upgrade on the DAC instead. I would suggest you consider upgrading your Arcam DAC and consider getting away from USB.

As Marv pointed out, the Valhalla 2 and Jotunheim are like siblings, but they excel in different areas. The lack of soundstage in Jotunheim (especially compared to Valhalla 2) ended up being the deal breaker for me.

 

Some of these posts on this forum are starting to make me think I should look for something other than a Schiit amp for an upgrade to my Asgard 2. Valhalla lacking slam, extension and being like a toy, and Jot having harshness or glare and poor soundstage, the MJ2 not really sounding any better and still being harsh or jarring when it cost twice as much money. On Schiit's Website it clearly states that the MJ2 is an end game amplifier. Schiit is known for being very honest about their products and not using exaggeration. Something is not adding up. Perhaps the MJ2 is a more neutral product which is what I am after. Recordings mixed for non neutral systems will often sounds harsh on neutral systems. As a result the neutral bass will cause one to push up the volume to increase the bass and thus increase the harshness. Could this be why the opinion of MJ2's sound varies so widely? Perhaps the only way for me to find out is to buy one and try it. Will need to decide if it is worth the effort.

 

Not sure where you got this from or how it even qualifies as a sonic descriptor. As laid out pretty clearly in the first post of this thread, all of the Schiit headamps have compromises, with Rag being the best all-rounder. There is more than enough written about each of these amps on this forum to see how they trade off with one another and choose which best fits your priorities. If you don't know what your priorities are no amount of reading will get you anywhere and you need to actually just hear stuff to figure it out first.

Look at the Cayin iHA-6 for a versatile SS amp under 1K that works with the HD800(S). Your theory on why impressions vary on the Mjolnir is misguided.

 

I

I apologize for coming across as cynical. I may have researched this too much. I have read the Valhalla 2 being called a toy at least twice on other threads. I think I have read just about every impression out there at this point and I do know what my priorities are and understand compromises. And those impressions cause considerable concern over the MJ2 being a good value. On the other hand the Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil are universally accepted as being a good value. Appreciate the recommendation on the Cayin. The Cayin iHA-6 is difficult to find and not sure if it can be auditioned. However based on what I have read it would otherwise be on my shortlist.

 

I guess the thing is that all the Schiit amps are priced below even the parts cost for a "no compromise" headphone amp. The good thing is that all of them compromise in different ways. The negative points you are reading are basically nitpicking around the nature of these compromises, in what are pretty uniformly high value products.

The prices are determined by a standard margin above raw parts cost. This may not correlate strongly with performance in aspects you find important. In other words, don't think of changing to a more expensive Schiit amp as upgrading, rather just look for the one whose compromises fit your requirements best. (And that could be the Asgard)

At some point you have to stop researching and just buy something (Schiit or otherwise). Don't be afraid of getting it wrong first time. Buy secondhand, sell secondhand and you will not lose much, and you will gain experience that makes it easier next time.

 

@SnowPuppy I don't recall any toy reference. I can only imagine GUTB or mtoc using that descriptor for the Valhalla 2. (You should disregard those two guys, btw.)

 

Sounds like it. Paralysis by analysis. I also suspect you don't have a firm grasp on your sonic preferences and priorities. It's important to approach an upgrade knowing what you want. If you go in with the goal of finding "the best" or even the least compromised, you're going to be disappointed. If you don't know what you want, just try something and you'll find out pretty quick.

 

@SnowPuppy, I'm in a similar situation as you, looking to upgrade. However mine is easier since I'm coming from a much more compromised amp (Chord Hugo).

It seems you've done so much research you're at the point of paralysis by analysis. Your Asgard 2 is a highly regarded amp. IMHO any upgrade from this really is about matching the sound you're looking for (picking the amp to fit your taste). If you like the Asgard sound but just want more overall kick/power, the Jot maybe a worthwhile upgrade (if you go balanced to your HD800).

IMHO I don't really consider Schiit amps to be "compromised" as much as they are designed for specific purposes (at least in Jason's mind, though one may not agree with this logic). The Valhalla 2 is at its core an OTL tube amp that responds well to tube rolling and is about medium power. There will be better and more powerful OTL amps out there (at much higher prices), but in the end if this sound signature is not what you want, then you'd be wasting time/money chasing OTL amps.

 

Thanks for help guys!
Ye the speed and clarity is what really do appeal to me over Mjolnir2.
Cause I really miss hearing the speed HEK/HEX has.
So I think ill go for a Jotunheim then. Mjolnir2 more mid bass = no ty.

 

Our gaseous compadre is quietly offering excellent advice here. A good DAC, fed well, will make your music listening more pleasurable all-round. Hearing further "into the music" is hard to overrate.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and a badass DAC is a low-maintenance way to level yours up. The obvious candidates are the Gungnir Multibit and the Yggdrasil (depending on budget, both are remarkable bits of kit) unless you know for a fact that your tastes are more towards NOSland or D/S. Given how well both of them hold their value and are in such crazy demand, there's virtually no risk in taking the plunge.

There's a good reason that the general orthodoxy around here favours them- the sheer quality/price proposition is off the scale, compared to the competition. It's a little weird how much of a slamdunk the big Moffat DACs are- no wonder the audio dinosaurs feel threatened.

(OK, so the smaller Schiit multibit units are remarkably hard to beat for the price too, admittedly, but don't you want that beautiful chewy bass that only the bigger units can bring?)

A good DAC would give you a firm foundation for great sound- ready to feed whichever amp you end up with.

 

I'm not a DAC believer, atleast not after having owned a Audio GD m7.
But then I have not tried multibit DACs. Guess I could try a Bifrost Multibit as the dealer usually give package prices.

 

What does this even mean?