Schiit DACs and Linux

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by fishski13, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. fishski13

    fishski13 Friend

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    You guys kick ass. I'm going spend my day hacking some Linux and report back with the suggestions here.
     
  2. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I absolutely acknowledge that Will it work with Linux becomes a necessary google when it comes to audio gear. I think there are two sides to this...

    1. The more "sound-card-"like devices that require device-specific software to control them, their internal settings, levels, patching, etc. This is going to be by provided software, and that software is going to Win/Mac, and sometimes not even both. Early RME stuff had available linux software, but then, I think, they decided to do proprietary stuff and stop playing with the open-source developers. Lynx don't, and I don't think they ever did.

    2. Is the device "Linux compatible?" Or is it Incompatible with USB Audio classes 1.0 and 2.0?

    2a. Windows didn't (doesn't? maybe 10 does?) support class 2. Manufacturers have (or had) to supply drivers if people wanted higher sample rates. Have certainly heard Schiit cursing Windows for this in the past. Linux supports both.

    2b. Manufacturers may not want to be class-compliant: they may want to do something proprietary. They are going to write for Win/Mac. One manufacturer that I emailed a few years ago gave me a straight "Linux? No, not USB" answer on a box that interested me at the time.

    As I measure it, at this point, Linux itself is ahead. Biases admitted: I detest Microsoft and just never happened to have anything to do with apple.

    However. There was a big hiccough, a couple of years ago when "Linux" (Actually I don't remember if it was Linux or one or more distro) broke the kernel USB audio support. That should be history now. I use an out-of-date kernel because I have an out-of-date video card, and I don't have any USB problem with it.

    I don't know how many manufacturers use the word "Linux" in their sales and user stuff. Sometimes one can find the "class-compliant" statement. I don't blame them for not wanting to deal with someone wanting to know why their "Linux-compliant" device doesn't work on Slartibartfast-Linux. But I don't think you'll find that Schiit have an ecstatic experience of supporting Windows either.

    Now I'll try to say something useful!

    The "Is it turned on?" equivalent in Linux audio is some internal mixer is at zero. I don't know about Pulseaudio, as I don't use it. I use JACK or play direct to alsa. I've fallen for this gotcha before, and I expect I will again. in a terminal, run the command alsamixer. F6, choose the relevant DAC and check the levels.

    But if the device is not even shown on an aplay -l listing, then I'm afraid I've failed to be useful.

    Just one more thing. If connected to a USB-3 port on the computer, try a USB-2 port. If there is one.

    And hey, anyone who wants trouble: just try Firewire audio devices on Linux o_O :mad:
     
  3. t3hwx9

    t3hwx9 Acquaintance

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    Can confirm that among Schiit DACs, Gungnir stands out in terms of USB Linux compatibility. Ubuntu 16.10, USB 3.0 ports.
    The unit I've tried at the trade show was disconnecting for no apparent reason. Workarounds: different USB port (it connects once to any of them during the single boot-cycle), powered hub. There were some frequency-related errors in dmesg, worth checking. The cause of this issue can be USB enumeration process, not even ALSA-related.
     
  4. fishski13

    fishski13 Friend

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    Fresh install Ubuntu 16.04 and new SSD...no love. I tried the USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports, with and without Wyrd, multiple reboots, and rolling 3 different cables. The computer will actually power up and down now with the Wyrd in place. The USB cables are not audiophool/wanky wire - one is a no name I use with my printer and the other two are Qualtek brand I purchased from Digikey that used to work before with the Gung. Here's the possibly pertinent/diagnostic entries from Syslog when powering up the Wyrd and Gung. I've tried multiple power up combinations and rolling USB cables.

    Feb 7 13:59:37 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 756.173527] usb 3-5: new high-speed USB device number 9 using xhci_hcd
    Feb 7 13:59:37 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 756.301761] usb 3-5: New USB device found, idVendor=0424, idProduct=2412
    Feb 7 13:59:37 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 756.301769] usb 3-5: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=0, SerialNumber=0
    Feb 7 13:59:37 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 756.302315] hub 3-5:1.0: USB hub found
    Feb 7 13:59:37 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 756.302340] hub 3-5:1.0: 1 port detected
    Feb 7 13:59:38 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 757.333599] usb 3-5-port1: Cannot enable. Maybe the USB cable is bad?
    Feb 7 13:59:39 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 758.165581] usb 3-5-port1: Cannot enable. Maybe the USB cable is bad?
    Feb 7 13:59:40 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 758.997543] usb 3-5-port1: Cannot enable. Maybe the USB cable is bad?
    Feb 7 13:59:40 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 759.829536] usb 3-5-port1: Cannot enable. Maybe the USB cable is bad?
    Feb 7 13:59:40 sthc-Z97-HD3 kernel: [ 759.829582] usb 3-5-port1: unable to enumerate USB device

    I'm going to dual boot 14.04 along side 16.04 and play around in 14.04.
     
  5. Greg121986

    Greg121986 Almost "Made"

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    Are you running MPD? It can be used with ALSA. https://www.musicpd.org/doc/user/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MPD This could help stabilize the system, but using MPD is contingent on getting ALSA to recognize the USB device in the first place.

    I've always had issues with CMedia & Schiit gear with Linux. This is the only primary reason I shy away from Schiit. I avoid CMedia USB interfaces at all costs.

    I will confirm @Thad E Ginathom mention above of checking alsamixer, press F6, and make sure your left and right channels are not muted. I do not think this is your issue, but this plagued me constantly throughout my ownership of an Oppo BDP-105. Every time I would try to initialize playback it would mute this output. The Inifinity symbol is mute.
     
  6. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I think it's something to do with CMEDIA support in LTS 4.4.

    Run a live boot daphile and check the kernel version.
     
  7. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    I'm probably not much help. I use TOSLink (via a soundcard) from Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa (which is based on Ubuntu 14.04) to feed my Gungnir Multibit. I'm using kernel 3.19.0-32-generic.

    I have PulseAudio disabled and use a custom ALSA asoundrc file.

    I just dug out a usb cable (Belkin Gold) and the Gungnir Multibit works fine via USB. When defining the PCM in the asoundrc file, it would not work when identifying the Gungnir Multibit by its name "Device", I had to use the hard coded hardware values, eg:

    Code:
    pcm.Gungnir Multibit {
      type hw
      card 1
      device 0
    }
    Probably not much help.

    Have you tried a live Linux CD / USB stick?

    The Gungnir Multibit sounds immediately different via USB compared to TOSLink! Definitely less defined and slightly smeared.

    EDIT: Edited for clarity
     
  8. fishski13

    fishski13 Friend

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    I feel like Grady Tripp today - nothing is going right. We had freezing rain and I took a spill in the parking-lot of Microcenter going off-piste over a parking-lot median curb. My arm and hand are messed up and I'm losing mobility as the hours tick by. I decided to head back out to Best Buy to buy another USB cable to prove to myself that it's not a cable issue, and knowing that there was a liquor store next door to help medicate my arm. No love with the new USB cable cable, but my arm is feeling better :drunk:.

    Booting Daphile shortly before messing around in 14.04. I'll give Mint Rosa a shot. I wish that there was a speedy equivalent of Rufus in Linux for creating bootable thumb-drives. Gnome Disks is the best, but takes some time.
     
  9. mrflibble

    mrflibble Friend

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    I use unetbootin, https://unetbootin.github.io/ to make bootable usb thumb drives. I think it is in the repository.
     
  10. take

    take Friend

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    I know the following command works with the Arch bootable iso (but I can't imagine why it wouldn't work for other images). It creates a bootable USB.

    # dd bs=4M if=/path/to/archlinux.iso of=/dev/sdx status=progress && sync
    (The above where sdx is your device, without the partition number, you can use lsblk to find that.)

    I'll report that on Arch (4.8.13-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 9 07:24:34 CET 2016 x86_64 GNU/Linux), I have no issues with USB and Gungnir Multibit. The dmesg output of connecting it looks like this:

    [ 2.212669] input: Schiit Schiit USB Audio Device as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/usb3/3-6/3-6.1/3-6.1:1.2/0003:0D8C:0319.0002/input/input9
    [ 2.212708] hid-generic 0003:0D8C:0319.0002: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.00 Device [Schiit Schiit USB Audio Device] on usb-0000:00:14.0-6.1/input2​

    Based on your syslog output above it seems that something is very wrong. If it doesn't work off a bootable USB, I'd probably start talking to Schiit about it. Like other said, anything like unmuting the device in ALSA, using a different audio player, etc. will make no difference if you can't even get it to show up in aplay -l.
     
  11. Lightbulb Sun

    Lightbulb Sun Friend

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    The devices are supported in any modern kernel, so you shouldn't have an issue with that. USB 3.x support has matured significantly since the late '00s as well.

    Further troubleshooting will generate considerable text output, so feel free to PM me.
     
  12. fishski13

    fishski13 Friend

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    No luck with live USB. Going to try rolling back the kernel in 14.04 tonight, but the fact that other Gungnir owners are not having issues, suggests that my Gung has a problem. I would like to exhaust all possible fixes on my end before sending it in though.
     
  13. Xen

    Xen Friend

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    Code:
    <<1:Kimagure [19:59] /var/download/arduino-1.6.9 2>>
    > uname -a
    Linux Kimagure 4.9.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.6-3 (2017-01-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux
    
    Code:
    [    2.140854] usb 2-1.5: New USB device found, idVendor=0d8c, idProduct=0319
    [    2.140857] usb 2-1.5: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
    [    2.140859] usb 2-1.5: Product: Schiit USB Audio Device
    [    2.140860] usb 2-1.5: Manufacturer: Schiit
    [    2.146521] input: Schiit Schiit USB Audio Device as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.5/2-1.5:1.2/0003:0D8C:0319.0002/input/input4
    
    So far *crosses fingers* no issues between Gungnir and my Linux server.
    My guess is the USB module in your Gungnir is acting up since you have tried multiple distros and machines. Probably not what you want to hear. I've had Gungnir Multibit hooked up to my linux server by USB since I bought it. Gone through MANY kernel updates since HD4000 GPU support sucks so bad now (Chrome... I hate you). Through it all Gungnir Multibit has worked.

    Hope you fix your problem.

    EDIT
    If shutdown get stuck, I seriously think its the USB module on Gungnir. The kernel seems stuck in I/O loop hell and can't break out to finish the shutdown/reboot until you yank the cable, which finally sends a TimeOut signal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  14. AstralStorm

    AstralStorm Friend

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    I have a quirk patch that makes Lynx Hilo work - it has slightly broken clock handling. Similar quirk might work for other Lynx USB gear - just try adding USB ids and/or use lsusb to find the clock source number. Some nice guy Arne Caspari wrote this and sent it to me, but he never got it included in mainline. I'll contact ALSA folks to get it in.
    Patch: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69379069/Sound/usb-audio-lynxhilo-clocksrc.patch

    As for USB gen 2, it just works in 4.8.12-ck I'm using at the moment. No issue whatsoever. Do not use ancient kernels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  15. AstralStorm

    AstralStorm Friend

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    Oh, and if you're going for low latency, there's a kernel boot option to put important things into kernel threads: threadirqs
    It does exactly what's on the tin: moves IRQ handling into kernel threads, allowing priorities to be set and also preventing devices from blocking each other if either voluntary or full PREEMPT is set.

    It's very much required to get low latencies out of USB. RT kernel enables this when you set PREEMPT_RT, but it's available in all Linux since... long ago. Some drivers might break (e.g. nvidia driver) but it's not likely. 4.9-ck enables this by default.
    For Debian and Ubuntu, use kXStudio lowlatency or realtime kernels if you don't like building your own, preferably latest release ones.
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I use KXStudio on top of Linux Mint 17.3. When I first used KXStudio, it was relief from the hell of making a Firewire device work, as alluded to before. KXStudio makes JACK work, and it makes controlling it easy. I love the Catia patchpanel! I think was about six years ago (Ubuntu 10.something) KXStudio process priority and IRQ optimisation inclusing Rui Nuno Capela's threadirqs as mentioned was not enough without an rt kernel. Then, after that, low-latency would do. For a while, I have found the generic kernel just fine.
    Code:
    $ uname -a
    Linux peafowl 3.19.0-32-generic #37~14.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 22 09:41:40 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    
    In fact so much just fine these days, I don't even think about which kernel I'm running.

    This is not an audiophile thing: this is an it works or doesn't work thing --- as in unlistenable because the sound hiccoughed or dropped out every few seconds.

    I don't know what the audiophile distros do to optimise for listening (apart from putting "audiophile" in the name ;) ). I suspect, much the same as KXStudio. I found it first, possibly because it came first, and I stick with it (Ubuntu Studio didn't work out for me; not with Firewire). The others probably focus on streaming/playing software, rather than huge amounts of tools for making music. I don't use the entire distro because I have no need of those tools (although there is a huge amount of fun in some of them). Also, I am manic about my desktop and obsessively fixated on MATE/Compiz/Emerald.
     
  17. SimpleTwistOfFate

    SimpleTwistOfFate New

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    been nearly a year since the last post, would love to hear an update
     
  18. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Back in the day, when I used to read Jason's book on Headfi (Only management text book worth reading!) it was Microsoft that he used to rant about. As I have said before, Linux ximply supported the standards, Windows didn't. and that was why manufacturers had to supply drivers. That... and their desire to be able to claim some proprietary improvement over the standards. Which, of course, they kept secret.

    Linux can't be blamed for that. And after all I remember Jason saying about Microsoft being so far behind in not supporting USB Audio 2, I'd be surprised, and a touch disappointed, if Schiit gear did not work with the standard.

    (Or... did I say all that before? It's been a year :oops: ...)
     
  19. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    I guess I don't understand the question. Our DACs work fine with Linux distros that supports UAC2. At least half the systems in the tech lab are Linux.

    They also now work fine with the latest Windows 10 update, which also supports UAC2.

    Or am I missing something?
     
  20. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Different Linux distros can be a variety of different things causing hiccups or dropouts.

    I used to get all kinds of dropouts because my music was on an NTFS formatted drive. Sure, Linux can see it and use it and read/write, but FAT32 or one of the EXT formats is much better suited for it.
     

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