Schiit Freya Preamp Review (Episodic)

@Scott Kramer
OK guys... I did it now.....

I ordered a new sub with high level outputs, and I'm going to sell my Martin Logan sub (I think I'm going to sell it). This way the gain problem I'm having is a thing of the past and I'm returning the pro audio equipment that I ordered from B&H Photo.

Guess what I got?

A REL S/3. This is some serious sub. 71lbs. It sells for $2,099.00. Didn't pay that though. Bought refurbished for much less, like $700.00 less. I was going to buy the REL T/9i when I found this deal for the REL S/3. You are talking a major upgrade for $100.00 more than the REL T/9i and I mean major upgrade. REL T/9i 41lbs.

It kills me to break up my Martin Logan family, but realistically this is how I'm going to get the sound that I have waited 5 years for. I keep telling myself that it's ok to spend that last little bit to get the REL sub. The reality is that the FREYA is a great preamp, but if I want my system to get there..... high level sub input is necessary to accomplish it. Peroid. I'm pretty excited. I've always wanted the "REL EFFECT". It is said that your system will bond with their subs in a way not many others can. That's all for now. Dennis

PS: DANGER.... Not all NuPrime Class D amps can take the REL speaker level connection.

According to NuPrime........................

"In some applications, the speaker outputs from the power amplifier are used as source signals for devices such as REL sub woofer. For such application, usually the receiving devices should have DC offset blocking capability because some amplifier by design has floating ground (DC offset) on the speaker outputs.

The following models have no DC offset on the amplifier speaker outputs and the negative terminal is also the ground:

SAFE NuPrime STA-9, MCH-K38, IDA-16

The following models' speaker outputs CAN NOT be connected directly to sub woofer input:

NOT SAFE NuPrime Reference 20, ST-10, IDA-8"
(can't put black REL Speakon wire to amps speaker black terminal, must ground black REL Speakon to preamp)

 

Question on using the Freya XLR outputs to drive headphones directly - I have an XLR harness that I use to direct drive headphones from my DAC XLR outputs. The DAC manufacturer confirms that it is OK to do this with their DAC (it is not OK with all DACs).

Is it safe to do this with the Freya XLR outputs?

 

I'm curious how the Freya would sound with the Mjolnir 2 running Lisst tubes. That might be too crazy.

 

What's this you ask?

It's a Tripp Lite IS500HG, an isolation transformer with hospital grade plugs.

When I got my Freya at the beginning of January, I thought it was awesome, then I went over to Gaurav's, ran a few errands, and went home and fired up the rig. WTF where did this hideous noise come from? God damn!!! This is stupid!!! It worked fine earlier... Arrrrrgh, go to sleep. Wake up try again, wow it's good again. What's going on? Later in the day, f**k! The noise is back.

I finally figure out later in the day the noise originated when the kitchen light was on, which also had a dimmer.

After some google-fu, it seems dimmers are the source of many headaches in stereo land. More google... Some dude on head-fi, bless their heart, said he had a similar problem and this very isolation transformer cured it. Ordered and implemented, yes it does fix the dimmer drone. It won't fix tennis elbow or other more serious ailments, but it did fix this very annoying problem.

It won't fix 60Hz hum, which my BW2 has to an extent, but my Elekit doesn't. I just turn the BW2 volume down a bit from max

EDIT: I would like to add, I tried the Emotiva CMX-2 before this by 2 minutes and it did not help.

 

SCR dimmers = very bad juju. If you have a portable AM radio, tune it to between stations and walk it up to a working SCR that is partially on. Note how the noise goes up by an incredible amount. Studios use transformer variacs for dimmers. SCR dimmers are verboten.

 

@atomicbob Would something like Philips Hue cause problems in your opinion?

 

I have not tested LED lighting for ElectroMagnetic Emissions (EMI) either conducted or radiated, so I don't know. This article might be a start for reference:
http://www.we-online.com/web/en/pas...m/blog_detail_electronics_in_action_45888.php
Simple test is the AM radio tuned between stations. If it increases in noise when put in proximity with the LED light then the LED light is producing radiated emissions. If there are radiated emissions then there is a strong possibility for conducted emissions as well. Simple test for conducted emissions; without any music playing and the volume turned up (be careful not to let anything play, avoid hearing damage) listen for a change in the background noise level with the lighting in question running and completely disconnected. You may have to unscrew the bulbs to assure total disconnection.

 

In my former lab we measured currents down to the microamps. The experiment needed to be in a faraday cage and on a anti-vibration table. When taking high frequency measurements we saw a ton of noise when the fluorescent lighting was on. Eventually they were switched out for LED lights, which run on D.C. and that reduced a lot of the noise.

Edit: microamps? I meant picoamps

 

EMI labs and a good many studios want incandescent lighting for a reason. Minimal emissions and mostly at 60 or 120 Hz if any. Emissions for fluorescent, CFL and LED vary in spectrum and level, depending on implementation of ballast or drive circuit. CREE apparently has lower EMI than Philips, as an example, if one believes the published information found in the internut.

 

Yep, variacs are the real way. Not so practical for the home but dimmers and audio should not meet when possible.

 

For 120VAC DIY have a look at Staco 201. Warning: this is working with potentially lethal voltages.

 

DC is all fine and dandy, but a lot of LED lightbulbs use a cheap and tiny SMPS in the base to produce that DC which is where problems may generate... and man, you shove a dimmer in front of that and it all goes to bollocks and back.

picoamps? oh mean micro²amps

 

Yeah, but fluorescent lighting has high frequency ballast running at 60khz. Running that through a large fluorescent tube made it into a transmitting antenna. At least the SMPS is located at one area that can be shielded. Not to mention that an LED tube is an array of LEDs instead of a long conducting tube.

 

@JK47 How about audible buzz from the isolation transformer under load? You might want to isolate it from the rest of the equipment rack with something like Sorbathane.

I was thinking of DIYing a balanced power supply to replace my iso transformer. The CMRR would be lower, but it'd be dead silent under load.. Maybe not a good thing to use with any Class A amps, though. Any thoughts, @atomicbob ?

 

Maybe mods can break this EMI branch to a different thread?

 

The IS500HG is dead quiet, I have to put my ear beside it to hear anything from the unit at all.

 

Oh no argument on that. My point on the LED smps's was that they shove a lot of grunge into your power lines.

I have an older version of what you have. Unfortunately, my household power is so grungy with wobbling DC offset that the transformer humms like mad.

 

FWIW,
I have a REL S/3 connected to a Freya via low level outputs and I prefer it to the high level speaker connection - although I haven't tried the high level connection with the Freya and had a different set up then (Yggdrasil into a Classe CAP2100 in power amp mode). I'm now using: Yggdrasil - Freya - ATI 6002

I felt that the low level had much better clarity.

The low level input on the back of the REL is at about 2 O'clock. I have a small EQ applied via Jriver and calibrated the system using REW.

Just to clarify, I have a very powerful power amp (AT 6002 - 300W) going into ML Electromotion speakers so I have to attenuate the signal quite a bit to reach reasonable listening levels. Therefore in this set up when I used the high-level speaker connection to the sub I had to put its volume on maximum (the exact thing you rightfully try to avoid). I also felt the low level connections sounds much better overall. I hope this helps.

YMMV

 

@PaperStar
Seems that we have a similar equipment.
I have.............
Freya,
ML Electromotion ESL
REL S3 high level input
ML Dynamo 1000 SE input
NuPrime STA-9 amp running balanced input,
Vincent SP-331 (coming in a few days) SE input

I ran into trouble matching my Martin Logan equipment using a balanced input to my NuPrime amp and unbalanced input to my ML sub. Too much of a gain difference and I had to turn up the volume on the ML sub all the way. So I bought a REL S3 and ran it speaker level inputs. Sounds great. I put new Audioquest Evergreen cables to my ML sub and now have the volume turned up to about 8 out of 10. I put the ML sub on a remote control and run it when I feel like having a little more low end. And can turn it off at will from my easy chair.

Now I just bought a Vincent SP-331 and it only has RCA inputs, so I will lose the benefit of the balanced input from the Freya. The amp is twice the power though. Thanks for pointing out that the RCA input to the REL S3 may be something to look into when I go to the Vincent amplifier. I wanted to stay with balanced to the amplifier, but I got such a deal getting this new amp, and I heard such good things about how well this amp goes with the ML ESLs.

The Freya is great, but trying to match the super powerful balanced with the rca input for the sub is difficult That's why I bought the REL for speaker level input with the balanced amplifier. The rca inputs is now the place I'm going to explore with me getting the Vincent SP-311 amp. I'm sure I'm going get it right.

Your input on this is great. Thanks again.Your amp is a Godzilla. OMG.

Oh my. More fun.

I even have another REL S3 coming in about another 3 weeks to add to the system. Hopefully it will be finished after that. Oh no, that's right. Better cables....... Argh.....